ADD worse after getting Sober?

[Joyous56]

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced ADD symptoms worsening after getting sober. I was just diagnosed about a month ago, but I used to drink everyday....and I remember telling the doc that it was, in part, because I never felt like doing anything productive (nothing that I didn't want to do, that is....TV, reading, and the Internet were fine) And I felt so guilty about that (and lots of other things) that the alcohol numbed those feelings. He always thought it was depression, and medicated me for that

Now that I've been sober almost 10 months.... I'm feeling less and less able to focus on work, or chores, or anything I'm not interested in. Could it be that the alcohol made things better....or perhaps the sobriety is allowing me to feel the feelings and experience the full effects, without numbing myself?

I've tried Strattera, now Ritalin....and I am feeling so guilty about being unfocused and not getting my work done at work. I've been obsessing about ADD research....and Buddhism. The internet is just so addictive to me; it's like a door into the world of visual and intellectual stimulus....and I feel like I am simply unable to choose my boring repetitive job over that.

I know it needs to get done, I know it's my job, I know I'm not giving my employer what they're paying for....I know there will be consequences. I feel like maybe I should quit, because I don't know how to change my behavior.

I get to work, sign on...and before I know it the day is over! I try throughout the day to drag myself away...and get about 3/4 done with something, run into some small administrative annoyance...and back I go to the internet.

I get annoyed when...the staples run out, the copier stops working, someone wants me to write them a check....stupid things. I even get annoyed with the boring tasks that involve entering data and flipping pages over, and looking up and down at the monitor....arghhhh.

I need to get a grip.

[relvinnian]

You are not alone. Getting clean was a messy experience for me, and it has only recently started heading in a consistently hopeful direction. Alcohol serves a purpose as do other drugs of abuse. Even for people who do not have ADHD, drug addiction can modify brain chemistry so that the absence of the drug induces a "pseudo-ADD" state. This is usually characterized by anhedonia (inability to experience pleasure), lack of motivation, distractibility, lethargy, anxiety, impulsivity, and other emotional modulation issues.

People with ADHD are particularly likely to develop addictions (as you know), and addiction will exaccerbate ADHD symptoms because the brain circuitry is further disturbed by drugs. Other people likely to develop addictions are people with depressions, bipolar, anxiety, and those with so-called "reward deficiency" states.

All I can say is that I admire your courage in getting sober. Because you have altered certain aspects of yourself, you need to find a way to re-wire your thoughts and behaviors. Medications can help with this, but generally you need to find much more to get things right again. You need to find a way to seek pleasure that is not immediate, like achieving goals, or being more active, or finding a hobby. Getting to this point takes a ton of work, and I'm not even close right now. But I'm getting there one day at a time.

What medications have you taken for depression? How long did you spend on Strattera? A good medication post-addiction to consider might be Wellbutrin XL. You can still take your ritalin with this, and you may find they work well synergistically.

Peace

[brandilyn]

The funny thing was I only felt normal when I was on something so getting completely off everything was a nightmare but I knew that if I didnt get the right kind of meds I would be right back self medicating.Now,for the first time in my life,I dont want to alter my state of mind at all!What a wonderful suprise!

[Joyous56]

Hey Brian.. I do feel very good about getting sober...it took a lot of time and effort....and the effort is ongoing.

I've tried Welbutrin, and like Strattera, it had no effect. Right now I'm on Celexa (an SSRI) for the depression.

After 10 month, I'm wondering what the lingering affects of alcohol are...and if what I've been experiencing (as you suggested, or perhaps just infered) is more early sobriety stuff rather than ADD. The thing that made me suspect ADD is that I have always had difficulty....in grade school, in highschool...with distractability, motivation, focus...and hyperfocus on things that interested me.

I think I need to be patient. And as you say, set goals....but I've been working on 'living in today', so goals are a bit tough! I think I've avoided goals, because not meeting them can be so...demoralizing.

Right now, I need to go offline, don't I??

[stanzen]

My behaviour and thinking was quite bizarre when I was in early recovery, but I wasn't really aware of this-- other people in recovery pointed it out to me. I felt I couldn't live with the dope and the booze and I couldn't live without them either. And I acted out on my anger way too often. Short-term talk therapy (and AA/NA) helped with this.

I get to work, sign on...and before I know it the day is over! I try throughout the day to drag myself away...and get about 3/4 done with something, run into some small administrative annoyance...and back I go to the internet.

My ADD symptoms definitly got worse-- but I didn't know I had ADD at the time, just thought I had a bunch of "character defects." I was also more depressed than I had been in years.

It took over a year of sobriety for me to get back to being normally abnormal. Then I was able to deal with my real problems.

Recent reseach has shown that drug and alcohol abuse cause reversible, but enduring changes in neurotransmitters and in the visible shape of neurons in the brain. Being clean and sober can restore the brain to a former state, but it takes time.

I've been clean for many years, only recently was I diagnosed with ADD. Getting the right meds has helped me a lot.

Stick with it. I got a lot of respect for you. It's not easy to stay clean, but it can be worth it.

[Joyous56]

Originally Posted by stanzen

I've been clean for many years, only recently was I diagnosed with ADD. Getting the right meds has helped me a lot.

Thanks Stan. I drank half a liter of vodka every day for the last 5 years; I guess I can expect some damage.

May I ask what meds worked for you?

[brandilyn]

My drink of choice was hot damn 100proof.I would down a fifth of that like kool aid!!!Not having it in the freezer was very tramatic for me until I got on the right meds.I can have a sip every now and then(if its a special ocasion)and I dont crave it anymore.I remember having to take shots before taking my kiddies to the zoo.I was pretty pitiful.I do feel a huge diffrence now and my kids are alot happier and so am I.

[relvinnian]

Just so you know I take: Lexapro 20mg, Strattera 25mg BID, and Adderall 10mg TID. I haven't been on the Strattera long, but I have already noticed some benefits. I am tracking my progress with Strattera in my blog. I, too, noticed no benefits from taking strattera by itself, but with the Adderall it is almost the perfect combination. It really evens out the Adderall, and has improved my memory, planning, and social skills. I need more time to be sure of the benefits .

Wellbutrin was not a good one for me at all. In fact, even taking an SSRI by itself was a poor solution. I had the so-called "frontal-lobe syndrome": Apathy, fatigue, even poorer concentration, and impaired cognition. I added ritalin and this helped some, then switched to Adderall and added Strattera. It's literally a balancing act with these medications: you want to modulate and enhance, but not over-modulate.

I think one consequence of getting sober for me was a gradual awareness of just how damned bored and distracted I really am! It can feel so hopeless, because you know you are supposedly better off sober, but you know that you are somehow screwed up sober as well.

Alcohol particularly will cause significant changes in brain structure, and they are unfortunately widespread. Alcohol can be considered a polypharmacy: It affects cell and system in the body, and in terms of brain chemistry it causes very spefic changes in just about every major system. Notably, alcohol has potent effects on the opioid-reward circuitry and dopamine system, the GABA/glutamate balance, and the serotonin system among others. Logically alcohol treatment would involve serotonergic enhancement with and SSRI, as well as prefrontal enhancement (strattera, wellbutrin, stimulants, etc) to help restore balance to the DA system and major gaba-glutamate systems that mediate reward and cognition.

A major obstacle then would be re-establishing environmentally triggered functioning within these systems. In other words, a drug short-cuts natural processes and leaves the systems hypo-functioning so that normal environmental stimuli do not properly activate them in the same way. It's even more difficult if you've struggled pre-drug with a natural underlying problem within these systems, such that they have never been properly modulated and activated in the first place (ex ADHD).

Treatment has been scary as hell for me. I came out the haze, and then began to experience sensations and modes of thinking I never had because I was actually treating the source of problem. So many times I have felt like I'm going do melt-down and go straight back to my old problems of depression, drug-use, etc., only to push on and find I have conquered a new aspect of the world. I ended up in the hospital several times since I started this process. I still feel mauled each day. All I can say is that you will eventually heal if you keep going.

Keep doing your searching. Searching has been part of my healing process. It seems so counterproductive sometimes, because it's just a diversion from your real problems, like an attempt to find some non-exsistant holy grail. But for me, it was just an outlet for my emptiness and passionate, sideways mind. I also educated myself in the process.

[stanzen]

Joyous,

I am taking generic adderall (amphetamines) and have also tried ritalin. Both work well.

The stimulants don't make me feel like drinking or taking drugs. They probably reduce any thoughts of alcohol abuse.

As relvinnian indicated, the right mix of meds is unique to every individual. I tried an antidepressent (like relvinnian, it made me sluggish, apathetic and spacy) which worked only in combination with a stimulant. But I really didn't need the antidepressant and am just taking adderall now.

[hb34]

Have you told your boss about this? He/she will think you're just a bad worker if you don't but should understand if you do. It could save your job to let them in on this. Maybe a leave of absence or some vacation time can be worked out until your med situation is settled. Actually sick leave would be quite appropriate. Personally I need to go back to school. I even enrolled for the current semester but dropped out because of a situation similar to yours. I won't go back until I feel sane (relatively speaking ) and I can depend on myself to be able to do what I need to get done. But right now my doctor and I are still experimenting with the right combination of meds and dosages. Maybe that's all you need to take care of.

One thing I know for sure is that alcohol is a depressent and is definately not recommended for someone that has the symptoms you describe. Alcohol does make things better in the short run but in the long run it's a terrible idea as a form of self medication. I won't go into details but I promise you that you can trust me on that.

Terry

[robkenn]

Stanzen,
I can relate to the character defects.

I procrastinate because I have ADD not because I'm a drug addict or alcoholic.

I was born with ADD. Those worthless thoughts I had growing up were from ADD not from the drug addict or alcoholic I was "born to be".

I started on adderall and remeron back in Jan. I am now a little over 8 mos. clean.
this is the longest I've been clean my whole life. I owe this to receiving proper treatment of my ADD.not drug treatment.
I completed a 6 mo. residential dual diagnosis treatment program back in june.
I have been in 6 different treatment programs prior to this and failed miserably each time. Actually it wasnt miserably.i just simply failed.
You get pretty good at things if you do them long enough.

I was great at failing.

The 12 steps and the higher power never worked for me before.I mean i tried to make it work.I just never got it.
My father is a therapist who also had a drinking problem. He went to AA for 5 yrs.
Its a good program. its helped millions of people and there are hundreds of self-help groups that use the 12 step treatment model AA pioneered.
I have been using a cognitive therapy approach to staying clean this time.
Again this is the longest I've been sober since I was 10.
I have been participating in The SMART recovery program. I would post the link but I dont know how to.not that i'm dumb i just never learned.
look up www.smartrecovery.org
there is a ton of information that can be used by anyone for any life situation.I've found that alot of helps with my ADD as well.
Just because you are not a member of AA or NA or have trouble "turning things over to a higher power" DOES NOT MEAN YOU CANT STAY CLEAN OR SOBER.

I self medicated my ADD with drugs and alcohol my whole life.
Medication was key for me being sober now. My thoughts now have a defined start and finish. I can now almost change the way I feel by the way i think. I'm actually working in a workbook titled "Mind Over Mood" This workbook got me through treatment. Me being sober now is not the result of "working the program" that particular program may work for others.but what works for others doesnt work for me.
Cognitive therapy is not new.its been around for a long time. Many if not all good therapists base their treatment plans on these simple ideas. The reason this works for me is my brain finally has somewhere to go.
If it wasnt for my ADD being treated I would propably continue to make bad choices and yes I would eventually wind up dead as a result. With the ADD being treated abusing drugs just doesnt make sense. I did drugs for a reason. I am not going to say I hated doing drugs either. Drugs make you "feel" good.When you have ADD and dont know it how do you feel? For me I felt worthless,insecure,anxious,crazy,lazy,stupid,defen sive,uptight and above all alone very alone.nobody else could ever feel this way.
Now I feel whats real and I'm finally "getting it" I'm not stupid I'm just not educated. I am in the process of changing that. Each day I learn something new and can actually remember what each learning experience taught me.
I dont mean to ramble just wanted to add to this.

[paulbf]

Robkenn, I appreciate your words and can really relate. I'm still lost, my diagnosis is still uncertain, I went through a series of meds, counselors (not cognitive though) even coaching. I suppose I was doing better when I was working so hard on it for that time but I abandoned the idea of an ADD diagnosis for the last several months & have been mostly drifting through life with at least some interesting but shaky prospects for ever getting anything productive done.

So I'm getting back into thinking the ADD may be something real to me. It's hard to know after hardly ever being clean for as long as you since nearly the same age. Who knows what my 'normal state of mind' would be? The times I have gone clean the withdrawals are just a couple days headaches but insomnia can be bad. Then life is just dull and tedious and it's so gratifyingly easy to light up. pour a glass and put a hold on ambitions, obligations, opportunities. Whatever you call those things that would lead to a happy successful life and make me feel competent and worthwhile, those same things that are loaded with demons of fear, guilt, shame, laziness and I don't know if the distraction is to blame on:

1. substance abuse
2. unresolved emotional scars
3. add inattentive type
4. being raised with plenty of freedom and almost no discipline other than the above mentioned emotional scars.

I don't know how important each of these factors may be.

Obviously I should get back to seeing some kind of doc but I'm so bogged down and incapacitated lately... There are times I can lock into something fun and interesting and maybe even approaching something I could get paid for but it doesn't get any further than that and I procrastinate and wait and self medicate. And the hours, days, and decades fade past things really just getting worse.

So I've been in this weepy mood for a week or so. I can go many months or years without palatable depression. This reminds me of the days back as a kid seeing a therapist; they sit you on the couch & make you cry & pull unpleasant memories up. I did it again recently with a couple different therapists twice a week for a while plus P-docs and ended up just lost again. I guess that cognitive approach might be a way for me to not go back to the same old depressing therapist scene but actually get some treatment.

Anyways thanks for your words and everyone in here.

[sunstarmn]

Originally Posted by brandilyn

The funny thing was I only felt normal when I was on something so getting completely off everything was a nightmare but I knew that if I didnt get the right kind of meds I would be right back self medicating.Now,for the first time in my life,I dont want to alter my state of mind at all!What a wonderful suprise!

I am totally in this same place right now. After being on some type of drug (street, illegal or whatever you want to call them) for about the last 7 years, I've finally come to the realization that I don't WANT to be on drugs anymore. I don't want to alter my state of mind either. Weird thing to come to after only feeling "normal" while high. I finally got treatment for the add and since being on those "drugs", I don't want the other kind anymore. It's a good feeling and shows me that I'm growing, which is what I so desperately need.

[casinowife]

I can relate. I've only been off my drug of choice for 3 months and I no longer have the pills to hide behind or numb me. Now I feel like I'm naked and the real me is exposed. I feel so vulnerable and afraid of my sober self, I keep looking for things to hide behind but I know thats the easy way out. I wish I knew what it is exactly that I keep running from. Why can't I just be ok with my true self, why do I always have to alter it with bad habits/addictions.

[Joyous56]

Casino wife...are you in some kind of a program, like AA....or another 12-step deal?

I know that I couldn't have 'stopped' without help, and that staying sober required more changes than gettng sober required.

One thing I have learned is acceptance...and that's only by the repetition and support that attending meetings provided. I've learned to accept (and loving) myself the way I am, even though I still have lots of things I want to change; accepting myself as someone who is changing and improving...and sometimes failing...is different than always striving to be better...and worthy...of acceptance and love.

And I can accept other people as being 'exactly where they are supposed to be'...flawed, uncertain, and sometimes 'sick'. I don't feel so often compelled to judge them or change them....but to take care of myself if their behavior affects me.

Accepting life the way it is....knowing I can't change most things...and that everything will work out the way it is supposed to...is such a relief. I don't have to regret the past, or worry about the future, but concentrate on making each moment the best it can be.

Well, all this sounds good, I know. It's a totally different outlook than I used to have, and I have to work on it. It's like, breaking an old habit, re-routing the neural pathways. Sometimes I am so at peace with the world and my life....and other times I do feel like I want to hide, to feel sorry for myself, all I've lost or missed out on, the things I wish were in my life now. And I want to drink at those times.

If were doing this all alone, I would drink, in a heartbeat. It's pretty scary sometimes, but I give you so much credit for staying 'clean' for 3 months!!!! Please, get some help and don't try to do this alone.

Joyce