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  #1  
Old 03-09-03, 09:03 PM
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Oppositional Defiant Disorder Symptoms

Oppositional Defiant Disorder Symptoms

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:

*often loses temper
*often argues with adults
*often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
*often deliberately annoys people
*often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
*is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
*is often angry and resentful
*is often spiteful or vindictive

Note: Consider a criterion met only if the behavior occurs more frequently than is typically observed in individuals of comparable age and developmental level.

The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning.

The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a Psychotic or Mood Disorder (such as depression).

Criteria are not met for Conduct Disorder, and, if the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Criteria summarized from:
American Psychiatric Association. (1994). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, fourth edition. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association.

From Mental Help Net
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  #2  
Old 10-03-03, 12:54 AM
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I have a question for you Big.

Can adults have ODD? The symptoms describe both my mother and 21yr old brother to a tee, yet I can't find anything on the net relating ODD to adults. I am pretty sure my brother also has adhd.
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  #3  
Old 10-03-03, 02:29 AM
waywardclam waywardclam is offline
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Wow. I was DEFINITELY this as a child.

I think I have outgrown it now... but I am not positive. Perhaps I regress when fighting with my wife and son...?
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Old 10-03-03, 07:10 AM
Wheel1975 Wheel1975 is offline
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Well folks, may I say that this simply sounds like the NATURAL reaction to being chronically frustrated and misattributed and situationally mistreated.

I think most people with ADHD, especially while not being given the "unique" treament they deserve and require, would qualify as this....

It seems to me that having any ther codition would be an indicatio tht this might be a "reaction" the another mis-deagnosis, rather than a condition of its own. (primary)
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Old 10-03-03, 08:58 AM
waywardclam waywardclam is offline
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You may have a point, Wheel. I always felt as a child that I was being unjustly treated because I was misunderstood and the people in charge of me were not as intelligent as I was.
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Old 10-03-03, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paul S
You may have a point, Wheel. I always felt as a child that I was being unjustly treated because I was misunderstood and the people in charge of me were not as intelligent as I was.
Well, Paul, I'd guess you were right!
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  #7  
Old 10-03-03, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bucky
I have a question for you Big.

Can adults have ODD? The symptoms describe both my mother and 21yr old brother to a tee, yet I can't find anything on the net relating ODD to adults. I am pretty sure my brother also has adhd.
Here's a web page with Frequently Asked Questions on ODD

To highlight one...

What happens when ODD youngsters become adults?

They can take their problems with them, causing difficulty in their relationships, marriage and work. The divorce rate, employment difficulties and the abuse of alcohol or drugs is usually higher in this population of young adults.

An excellent article on ODD can be found here.

According to Medline, "In a significant proportion of cases, the adult condition of conduct disorder can be traced back to the presence of oppositional defiant disorder in childhood. "

Many anti-social behaviors can sound like ODD, but that doesnt mean that they actually HAVE ODD, or Conduct Disorder. Only a medical professional can make that diagnosis.
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  #8  
Old 10-13-03, 08:46 AM
Sc@tterBr@in_UK Sc@tterBr@in_UK is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wheel1975
Well folks, may I say that this simply sounds like the NATURAL reaction to being chronically frustrated and misattributed and situationally mistreated.
I must say I do to some degree recognise the feeling of injustice and the "defiant" behaviour in myself and my mother, but from what I have read, the difference is that someone with ADD can often hurt people with words/actions because they act on impulse, but when the problem is explained to them or they realise they've hurt someone, then they genuinely regret their actions, and they are to some degree capable of learning from those mishaps.

You may still feel you were "justified" in your actions or wording of something, but you also are capable of regretting that what you said or did hurt someone. In case of ODD however, the element of regret or recognition of others' feelings isn't there, you feel like the other person "deserved" to get hurt.

Someone with ODD can often get a "kick" out of the defiance and often enjoys being hurtful to others, they do "bad" things BECAUSE they know what hurt they cause, NOT because they haven't considered the consequences of their actions (as with impulsive behaviour). There is an element of "I don't care about others getting hurt" in these actions (if not as far as "I want to kick them where it hurts).

I know the lines aren't as clear cut, but from the comparisons I've read about, there is a general difference in the intentions behind the behaviour, even if sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from the outside. (Especially if someone with ADD has trouble voicing their feelings, so apologising for upsetting someone can be difficult)

I believe for example that my ex may have ODD or be bipolar. I wanted to believe for so long that he regretted his behaviour (he only "regretted" it insofar as stopping me from leaving him was concerned), but the longer the more it became clear that he actually enjoyed hurting others, it made him feel strong and powerful and made him feel better about himself.

While I must say some of his blowups were down to low frustration/stress tolerance, there was always a certain air of intent and deliberate mischief about his actions - he actually PLANNED on how to hurt people, so there is no way any of what he did can be stamped off as "just plain impulsive" behaviour.

That willingness to hurt others for your own gain, in itself is definitely NOT part of ADD - we get frustrated easily, but that does not mean we are out to hurt others. Yes we blow more easily but we don't enjoy the hurt this causes others.


No matter what the reason, someone who beats other people up, destroys other peoples' property or deliberately says hurtful things to people, still has the choice to seek help for their problems.

It's whether or not you are willing to seek that help that distinguishes the "innocent" victim of mental disorder from the a$$hole who deliberately continues their behaviour.

Last edited by Sc@tterBr@in_UK; 10-13-03 at 09:12 AM..
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  #9  
Old 10-13-03, 12:11 PM
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I'll take that, and I 'll raise you a nickle...

I'll take the description and deffinition as proposed.

Still, i have to wonder if the functional mechanism in ODD isn't more similar than different inside.

If an issue is left unresovled with me, I am as hot a week later as I was when i left it. Time, in and of itself, does not cool things.

I wonder if ODD folks are, really, prevented from ever gaining the "satisfaction" that allows others to "move on" from their "justified agner" or feelings that someone else "desevered" wht they got.

It wouldn't make any difference on the outside, or to how people should relate to them interpersonally, but it might explain WHERE inside the process was stopping, instead of progressing.
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  #10  
Old 10-14-03, 04:07 AM
Sc@tterBr@in_UK Sc@tterBr@in_UK is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wheel1975
If an issue is left unresovled with me, I am as hot a week later as I was when i left it. Time, in and of itself, does not cool things.

I wonder if ODD folks are, really, prevented from ever gaining the "satisfaction" that allows others to "move on" from their "justified agner" or feelings that someone else "desevered" wht they got.
That's a very interesting point there, I've never really looked at it from that angle! Personally, once I get stuck in something I can often argue a point to death and even when a thread (on the net) gets closed, I'll still protest and tell people I'm unhappy the discussion got ended so "abruptly". (Even though with hindsight, it's quite obvious the subject has been discussed to death and I had been repeating myself over and over again!)

However, once I take a step back (either out of my own choice because I tend to get bored of it eventually, or being forced to, if the discussion is shut) I am able to move on, and realise where I should have stopped (because I was repeating myself), and I definitely regret it if any of what I said in the course of the discussion/fight hurt someone else.

It does make sense though, that not being able to take that step backwards (even after a long time), not being able to move on (even if its just out of boredom) from these feelings, would make someone very negative indeed, and spiteful, forever holding a grudge against the world

The funny thing is that, in spite of the fact that in most arguments I passionately get involved in the only reason to "let go" for me is because I get bored with it and move on to something more interesting, the fact that I easily get frustrated and can be extremely stubborn when I believe to be in the right, I still am very quick to forgive & forget, don't tend to hold grudges, and overall I am very fearful of confrontation, and tend to be more of a (clumsy and a bit useless but still!) mediator than an instigator.
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Old 05-28-06, 09:15 PM
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This is a garbage diagnosis. The willingness to hurt others for your own personal gain describes many business and personal situations. It is so amorphous that 30% of the population could be diagnosed with this disorder. They can show using a PET scan the hypoarousal of ADD. And their is sufficient data to believe that sociopaths have frontal lobe disfunction. But can they show the differances between how ODD and conduct disorder manifest themselves using a PET scan, EEG or MRI?
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Old 06-09-06, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justcause
This is a garbage diagnosis. The willingness to hurt others for your own personal gain describes many business and personal situations. It is so amorphous that 30% of the population could be diagnosed with this disorder. They can show using a PET scan the hypoarousal of ADD. And their is sufficient data to believe that sociopaths have frontal lobe disfunction. But can they show the differances between how ODD and conduct disorder manifest themselves using a PET scan, EEG or MRI?
Yes I believe they can.

..and don't worry, it's not catchable.
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Old 08-10-06, 09:36 PM
sss180b sss180b is offline
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Most people can read the DSM and find a "diagnosis" for everyone they know. The important thing to remember about diagnosing ODD is that it is classified as a "childhood disorder" and thus symptoms must be present during childhood. In order to properly diagnose this disorder, information is gathered relating to the child's behavior in various settings (ie, at home, school etc) and compared to behavior of "normal" children. The symptoms must also have been present for at least six months prior to diagnosis, and must cause significant impairment in the child's daily life.
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Old 08-10-06, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sss180b
Most people can read the DSM and find a "diagnosis" for everyone they know. The important thing to remember about diagnosing ODD is that it is classified as a "childhood disorder" and thus symptoms must be present during childhood. In order to properly diagnose this disorder, information is gathered relating to the child's behavior in various settings (ie, at home, school etc) and compared to behavior of "normal" children. The symptoms must also have been present for at least six months prior to diagnosis, and must cause significant impairment in the child's daily life.


Thank you, sss180b, for curbing the tendency, for most to 'run' with the DSM (whatever version) as being the 'almighty truth'.


Here's how I've *seen* it, folks..
Some individuals actually do invoke 'chances to change', if given, to react differently, as adults.

Nothing, and especially 'no one' is 'set in stone'.
Remember that.
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Old 08-11-06, 08:27 AM
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must have odd then cos i meet all the above lol being your self is impornted i think ....dorm
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