Annie Armen wants you!!!

[FtLaudWolf]

I thought (hoped) that this headline would grab people's eyes.

As is typical among many of we ADDers, my interests have gotten drawn to other things over time and I haven't been around. However, a rather lengthy (between 1.5 and 2 hours) telephone call yesterday has brought me back!

Many of you will remember this thread, posted by Draga (Mel) from last winter, but if you don't, reread it to get some feel for it: Adults with ADD - Time To Speak Our Minds!!!!!!!.

Now, you'll see that I posted the letter I sent to Ms. Armen in that thread, as well as a general reply to all that sent her emails at that time. Well, apparently my letter touched Ms. Armin enough to call me up, ten months later, by telephone.

I didn't sleep on Saturday night, due to the fact that I had electricity in my home in post-Hurricane-Wilma Fort Lauderdale and a friend didn't, so we wound up having a good old time with lights and television on until all hours of the morning. Therefore, I was napping soundly away when my cellphone, the only working telephone in the house, rang. It took me a few moments to register exactly who it was that was calling me.

She had gotten a lot of emails about the entire Ritalin is bad programming, Many of them were generated from our group of people here. She remembered my letter in particular however, and wanted to reach out to me to say how much she thought of it. And to get someone of the "other side" to come join in her program.

Boy, that woman can talk! And I totally believe she has ADHD herself. She even admitted as much.

:soapbox:
She mentioned a few times about people that hate her and want to shut her up. I think she's taken a lot of the emails personally. We did raise quite a firestorm with her back in December. I think she's under the impression that I have access to professionals or ADHD spokespeople because I was a part of that emailing of unhappy adults with ADHD. No, I just happened to chat a lot online with Mel about the time that Mel discovered that particular program...

I would like to say that after speaking with her, I am convinced that she sincerely wants to do good and help people and make the world a better place. Her website seems to promote a lot about something called AnnieBiotics but even after browsing her website I still can't figure out what AnnieBiotics is, and I don't think it's really a big moneymaker.

I happen to agree with her on one key point, that pharmaceutical companies are not interested in making our lives better, just in making more money...and they have played a part in promoting medications over alternative therapies...I agree that far too many children have been misdiagnosed with ADHD... I happen to agree that Ritalin is overprescribed, and has done damage to children.

It's very simple: The primary goal of pharmaceutical companies is to make money, and they do that by charging extraordinary prices and prescribing drugs that create as many symptoms as they treat. (Men who take Celexa often find themselves needing Viagra as well...)

My only contention with her is that I also believe that for some children...Ritalin does do a world of good and may be the only solution. It is far from perfect, but there is no perfect solution. I think that leaving out the fact that Ritalin can and does make a difference in these children's life is a detriment to the message she is trying to convey.

Anyway she wants people to participate in the program. She's definitely looking for experts, but I think she'll be happy with knowledgeable people. I told her I would try to get participation. I certainly don't have enough knowledge or background to "debate" with her own experts...especially when I'm liable to agree with them on too many points.

Anyway... I don't think she's a crackpot. I think she's VERY strident in her beliefs, and I think she truly wants to make a difference in people's lives. I might not fully agree with her but I think reasonable discourse and healthy debate is better that wanton destruction and blatant denial.

That's that...please be nice to me...

[Draga]

I am sure her intentions are noble...kudos for her..and I hope now she at least see's our side of things...can't make the world a better plave unless you know both sides of the equation come up with a resolution. It sure beats

[Draga]

Oh yeah, wolf dawlin, thanks for bring my ole thread back up...did feel good then to stand up and speak up. Glad you have not forgotten it.

[Bean Delphiki]

Originally Posted by FtLaudWolf

I agree that far too many children have been misdiagnosed with ADHD... I happen to agree that Ritalin is overprescribed, and has done damage to children.

I have no intention of supporting any radio or television program that will repeat this without solid proof.

Look at this chart.

And this one.

They're recent (2003). In the second one, the prevalence rate rises slightly above 10% in a few places, which is arguably high according to current numbers. (Around 7-8%, I believe...the 3-5% prevalence rate is still widely quoted, but that is an earlier number, from when it was believed to be relatively rare in females, so I think it is low. Even so, the numbers of children MEDICATED still fall into that range...meaning perhaps that ADD drugs are UNDERPRESCRIBED. At the VERY least, this study reports that a perfectly justifiable number of children are on meds.)

According to the report, the national average of children diagnosed is 7.8%, with only slightly more than half being medicated. This is also children who have "ever" been diagnosed, suggesting (I think?) that some of these children might well not be carrying the diagnosis...having been diagnosed as something else, perhaps.

Hardly alarming numbers.

[FtLaudWolf]

While I don't wish to bemoan your efforts, your links hardly indicate solid proof.

Reports published by the any branch of the Federal Government ever since corporate interests have come into power should be highly suspect. Pharmaceutical companies spend a lot of money in political campaigns, making certain that their interests remain entirely taken care of. If you don't believe this, start watching the news a little more carefully--and something besides FOX NEWS.

It isn't hard for me to believe the CDC publishing reports favoring drug companies. This isn't any more substantial than anything Ms. Armin presents. I think she offers plenty of evidence that some children have actually died from being misdiagnosed with ADHD.

Also, your own assumptions are based on the fact that every child with ADHD benefits from Ritalin. This is hardly the case either. Or that all children with ADHD will benefit from any medication for that matter. But some parents want to dope their kids up with drugs rather than participate in their children's development.

But you're free to do what you darn well please. I believe I asked for constructive objection, and not complete denial.

[Bean Delphiki]

*stares*

1. I never suggested it was "solid proof." It is basically impossible to have "solid proof" one way or the other about the prevalence of ADHD, because there is no "test" for it (like a blood test) that would determine if someone has it or not. But given that there are many sources that refute this claim of "overdiagnosis" that many make, I think simply stating that it is - without qualification - is unconscionable.

2. Well, okay. I could instead quote numbers from studies conducted by independent sources, where the numbers of medicated children were even LOWER. No study is without flaws, including this one. Heck, including any studies that indicate "overdiagnosis."

3. Undoubtedly, some children have died from Ritalin, but that's a risk ANY parent takes with ANY drug. Children who were genuinely ADHD have had psychotic breaks on ADD meds. An accurate diagnosis is no guarantee that taking the medication will be 100% safe.

4. I haven't made any assumptions about the efficacy of Ritalin whatsoever.

5. Complete denial of WHAT, exactly? And if this was not "constructive objection" what is?

[FtLaudWolf]

In summary (for those like me with more attention to write than to read), I really want to hear from people willing to offer constructive debate. I didn't start this thread to debate the issue but to develop interest in debating the issue. If that makes sense. And possibly to help find some professional who believes, as I do, that Ritalin has some merit for some children willing to debate it.

[Draga]

ritalin may have caused death ...but when you taking a highly controlled medication at such a young age shouldnt it be the job of both parents and doctor to monitor thier health....ritalin should not be given to kids anyway....it's way too strong

This I can agree with her...but the thing that steamed me up then and now is for people to say ADHD is not real. I am sick of having to justify to anyone that I have a condition at all to people who do not understand what is going on in the inside of not just myself but all of us who endure the same experiences

[FtLaudWolf]

Originally Posted by Bean Delphiki

3. Undoubtedly, some children have died from Ritalin, but that's a risk ANY parent takes with ANY drug. Children who were genuinely ADHD have had psychotic breaks on ADD meds. An accurate diagnosis is no guarantee that taking the medication will be 100% safe.

This is the point. And knowing the risks, I would rather my child learn how to live with unmedicated ADHD than being spoon fed stimulant drugs that may kill him.

I would first make darn sure that my child actually had ADHD and that his or her disabilities/issues/social problems weren't the result of something else. My sister-in-law teaches "troubled" children and can attest firsthand that for some of them the drugs are doing more harm than good.

Then I would learn about the alternate resources available. Alternative medication, therapies, etc. I would certainly want to know about the side effects and health consequences.

I actually managed to survive 27 years without medication. And I won't say that the last 11 years either on Adderall/Ritalin or self-medicating with crystal methamphetamine have been THAT MUCH BETTER. Adderall helps in some ways. If I could afford Strattera, I'd be using that.

Ultimately it is the parents responsibility. I'm looking for people willing to say that Ritalin helps their kids...or that Ritalin helped them as a kid...that they are certain that their life wouldn't have been the same without it.

[Bean Delphiki]

Hrm. Well, I think my aunt and uncle, and their son might be such people, but they're not on this board, and live in Canada...

My cousin was failing first grade prior to being put on Ritalin. Even if he could have "made it" without the meds, it still meant hours crying over his homework every night, while his parents sacrificed having a life just to keep him in his seat to do it.

Now he's at the top of his class. *shrugs*

I've heard not much but horror stories about Strattera. I wouldn't take it myself, just for safety concerns - it's a brand new drug!

[meadd823]

I've heard not much but horror stories about Strattera. I wouldn't take it myself, just for safety concerns - it's a brand new drug!

AGREED........I prefer to stick with drugs that have been around for twenty years and have had a chance to display all the "quirks" their consumption causes. I don’t want to be the 1 in a 100,000 to discover taking this new med can be lethal if taken with cheese, causes liver failure, heart attack, ect…...


Non narcotic does NOT allow a repeat here is NOT the equivalent of safe!!!!!! If you believe Strattera is safer simply because it is a "non-narcotic" you are dead wrong...pun intended!!!!! ALL drugs including but not limited to over the counter medications carry the potential to be lethal to certain segments of the population...Please for your own sakes and the safety of your children never take availability as proof of 100% harmless!!!!!!!!

Now that my nursing ego has had the chance to :soapbox:


...... I am supposed to be moderating here also...Oops.....I enjoy a good controversy but please be respectful to opposing posters...this thread could rapidly qualify for debates should tone become much stronger!!!!! Yes I am looking in the mirror here.

Oh yea got to go get some facts and figures to prove my point hmmmmmm why aren't you people in debates.......love both of your zest!!!!!!