Barkley's take on the hunter/gather theory of ADHD

[scuro]

Originally Posted by Scattered

... I had sufficient family support to survive until I got to the place where school was more interesting and I had developed better study skills.

Support is key. What role does parenting have? Parents play an important role. Often a mother on a mission makes the major difference in their child's life. A number of the parents also have ADHD. The indifferent parent can have a surprisingly large impact on their child's progress. These kids need personal academic attention. Everyone is stretched...parents, teachers, EA's. They need support some where. A good tutor can help.

[scuro]

Thanks for your latest post Tammy. We are all moving closer in opinion, that means we must be listening some what.

You just do it in the most disarming and earnest way possible, and that is to point out your own mistakes. I wish I could do that but this appendage is stuck down my throat and I can't get it out. :foot:

I'm the lesser man for it.

[mctavish23]

My opinion is,hypothetically speaking anyway, the child.

I've been doing this for so long that I have the basic intake process down, at least as far as knowing what I think needs to be done.

There's also a lot of intangibles that play into it as far as how much time you actually have; depending on how long the paperwork takes the Intake Dept. to do, were they on time etc.?

I rarely, if ever, dx a child on the very first visit;assuming that is they actually have ADHD.

The exceptions would be kids who've already been dx'd previously.

Even then, I usually treat it like they never have, because I like to ask my own questions.

There really is a difference in a clinician who has ADHD vs. one who doesn't.

I have dx'd adults before, but that doesn't happen often.

With children, it's easier to get more up to date info than it is with an adult.

The passage of time and then need for corroboration by people that know the adult well, as well as transcripts, etc., can be difficult to find.

With kids, that's not a problem.

What I do most of the time is to look for a comorbid condition that I can substaniate, like ODD for example, and then make arrangements to do an evidenced based eval later.

That way I don't rush into things, as well as get to spend more time observing the child.

The main thing I focus on at the first session, is parent education .

[stanzen]

Originally Posted by scuro

I really wish it were that simple. They only thing that really works with unmedicated and even some medicated kids is a very low teacher student ratio. Anything over 3:1 isn't effective. Folks who believe that more freedom would solve this problem, as was suggested recently, have never taught in a regular school with ADHD kids.

Good point.

In your school, after exposure to special ed, do the ADHD kids eventually rise to the same level as other kids do?

Do their developmental delays become less apparant?

[barbyma]

Originally Posted by meadd823

So what you have been saying is that ADD may fall into the category of random genetic drift, where I have been coming from the perspective of natural selection. Maybe ADD isn’t more common in our population because it falls into the category of gene flow and migration.

Just a clarification: Variation always exists and the majority of people, by definition, will be within a certain range.

Let's say you could measure attentional ability directly (no good test for this right now). The scores could range from, say, -5 to positive 5 with an average of 0. So, most people score near 0.

Almost all measures of human performance follow a normal distribution (bell curve). So, while a great deal of people score near the mean (peak of the curve), there are always people in the tails. The distribution of the normal curve is defined by how much people vary; 68% of the population will fall within 1 standard deviation from the mean (let's say they score between -2 and 2), 90% within 2 (between -3 and 3). We're in the tail (scoring -3 or lower).

This is all independent of any change in genetics over the years.

But, a number of things could be involved in why a -3 score on this test results in debilitating symptoms (ADD). There are several explanations:

1) The range has always been the same, but ADD symptoms are not impairing enough to be selected against. There is a rise in recognition of ADD or a rise in impairments because the tasks of daily living have changed.

2) Genetic drift, mutations, or migration has changed the distribution, including more extreme values. There are more impaired people.

3) ADD was selected for at some point because it was advantageous in some environments (where you were going)

The only way we would really be able to prove any of our theories is to first be able to determine if ADD in and of itself is one the rise or decline genetically. This would require an ability to identify a genetic marker. There are several ideas have been postulated but no absolute.

Even answering the question of the current genetic trend doesn't get us any closer to determining which of the three possibilities above is correct.

sorry----personal bias and experience prevents me from knowing much about the inattentive type without hyperactivity.

I don't think there's much to be known -- most believe it's no different & it's rarely studied. I so wish we could address this since it's the OP's question!

Barkley has such a following I do have a problem with some one who pokes fun at ADDers and has the amount of influence he seems to on the ADD medical profession.

It doesn't really bother me, but I have to say that it would be easier to swallow if he had ADD himself.

I appreciate your insights & constant questioning, Mead. It keeps me thinking and questioning, too. And if you never asked me to clarify, I might not think things all the way through!

[scuro]

Originally Posted by stanzen

Good point.

In your school, after exposure to special ed, do the ADHD kids eventually rise to the same level as other kids do?

Do their developmental delays become less apparant?

One of the biggest things that Special Ed does is give answers and solutions. If a kid comes to me unsure of why they just can't perform at school and they are already in grade 9, chances are there is anxiety, depression, or some antisocial tendencies. Giving students reasons and accommodations, certainly eases their minds. It lets them perform closer to potential. At the lower end then, these kids have a lower failure rate and at the higher end they can stay in the difficult math and science courses.

Medication isn't the magic bullet and Spec ed also isn't the magic bullet. They just both typically help to get the student to perform at a level closer to acceptable expectations. To get closer to grade level, one on one learning situations are key. Meds and the understanding that Spec ed can offer, can significantly help that process along.

[meadd823]

I wish I could do that but this appendage is stuck down my throat and I can't get it out.

Thanks Scuro I needed a good belly laugh this morning. As one who often finds my self in the same predicament I find JY jelly useful but taste bad, so I usually opt for a nice greasy hamburger!!!!! With just the right amount of grease that ole foot will slide right out. If one is dieting a nicely flavored Jell-O will work as a decent substitute. I know these work well from years of personal experience (lol)!!!!!!

[Lilly2011]

I'm only clumsy when I'm not dancing or running. I become clumsy by a lack of fysical expression. So that explains it fine to me!