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  #1  
Old 01-03-06, 07:02 AM
Princess-of-Chaos Princess-of-Chaos is offline
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Father/ no respect of privacy

Maybe this sounds not very serious to those of you who experienced rape or physical abuse....
Still, I have flashbacks. Sometimes I can't let my boyfriend close to me because something as harmless as underarm hair makes me think about my father....

My parents never respected my privacy in general. Maybe I always needed more of it than others, I do not know.
I only remember that I felt kind of persecuted from early childhood on. I perceived my mother as a inquisitor, felt as if I was placed under a microscope and dissected. I even remember that my mother "inspected" my genitals until I was ca. 12.

When I approached puberty, I did not want to hug my father anymore.
I have never liked people touching me, I can be very affectionate, but only if I choose to be.

But when I turned eleven, my breasts started to grow and I felt ashamed. First, it did hurt when somebody accidentally touched me there, second I perceived myself more and more as a woman and my father as a man.
I did not want my parents to see me naked anymore as well.
Probably they felt rejected, at least they did not respect it.
They loughed about me locking the bathroom door, my father forced hugs and kisses, although I always struggled to get out.
I don't really know what is normal, but I did not like my father going to toilet with opened door, for example. I simply do not want to know how he looks like.

Then, I got the impression that both parents looked too much at me.
Both made comments about my breasts, my legs and so on. I got the feeling my father shows and showed more than the appropriate affection.

Still, I avoid wearing "sexy clothes" or red lips when I am around my parents. My father e.g. always forms huge lips and kisses (don't know how to describe) when I put on lipstick.

Just after Christmas, as I left my parents place, my father showed again how little respect for my feelings he has.
I had my hands full with bags and he said: "Now you cannot defend yourself when I am kissing you"
I answered that it was my body and I am the only one to decide what to do with it. Then he replied that it was his feelings and he could not change them. I tried to explain to him that it is simply wrong to force affection, but he seems not to understand. As if I had no own will and his wishes were much more important than mine.

I don't know whether I am overly sensitive or whether I simply forgot some things...

At least I suspect fitting into the criteria of PTSD with those flashbacks and the terror I experience when I feel not being able to escape.
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Old 01-12-06, 09:57 PM
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yup. Amnesia happens more frequently when you rely on your abuser for close parental care.

as an incest survivor, you may have amnesia for an unpredictable duration: years, decades, or forever. I see it suppressed in people until they undergo childbirth, or until menopause, or until your abuser dies, or even forever.

it is common to have the "intrusive thoughts" that you mention.

are you able to escape your abusive situation?

This is really serious. More serious than being raped by a stranger -- because you are STILL IN THE SITUATION.

When family abuse happens -- the Victim is often called a "liar", and it is not the same as being raped by a stranger. If you were raped by a stranger, you could go home to the welcoming arms of your loving family, and would be safe again. End of story.


PS. perhaps your local hospital has a Social Worker who can talk to you, and teach "boundaries", help you leave your situation, get support, etc.


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Old 06-09-06, 06:15 PM
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Dear piaszw -- I saw your header"father - no respect for privacy" and had to read your post. My father was a very intrusive man also. He did not respect the physical/emotional boundaries of his children. He was a very "emotionally" painful person to be around. He has now passed away and I still have dreams of him laughing when I tell him to leave me alone! They are horrible because I feel so very helpless in them. I have no recollection of sexual abuse but my dreams do have that content. I'm curious as to what keeps you bound to your parents? I'm not judging you....I so wanted mine to treat me well that I continued to visit them {hope springs eternal!} - I think I was continually looking to be loved AND RESPECTED as a SEPARATE individual. Anyhow, my father has passed away and I'm telling you, this has given me a great deal of relief. Maybe you can find a group to connect with...since my father was a drinker I went to Alanon and it helped a tremendous amount. People with similar problems, still hurt yet healing...it kept me from feeling so isolated, inadequate and like a foreigner in my own skin. I really wish you alot of support!! Know that you are not alone and what you say and feel REALLY matters! Trust your gut!....Your head's on straight. I wish you lots of security and genuine love.
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Old 06-09-06, 08:02 PM
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couldnet put it better than that annem peace an love to you piaszw dorm
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Old 06-13-06, 05:40 PM
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intrusive behavior like that is considered abusive. i can think of NO reason why a parent unless there was some rare medical exception should expect full privy of a childs genitals and 'inspect' such private areas.
any type of touching like this that is highly uncomfortable to a child should always be stopped and it is VERY suspect that neither of your parents took you seriously, never addressed it properly with you and to this day insist on this behavior.
this is insidious and in some ways worse than other behaviors b/c it 'stops' before you could declare any gross mishandling of your body....
i was an abused molested child and i have been raped- but i can tell you one of my closest friends suffered so much b/c she compared herself to me...thought to herself how she had no reason to suffer or be upset or disturbed that her parents made her feel so ashamed of her own body and sex. but that is wrong. it took me a long time to convince her but- if you are an adult still left feeling this way there is something there.
just bc your father didn't outright rape you doesn't mean he didn't cross a boundary.
you obviously felt this betrayal and they obviously did not either care or know that this was inappropiate.
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Old 07-18-06, 04:08 PM
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Have you talked to your Physiatrist about this? I think that a professional will be able to help you a lot more than us, no offense to anyone but I definately think that situations such as sexual abuse is a topic for professionals as well as friends. I do think that it is great that you can actually talk about this though, some people that have been abused wont even talk about it. I am sorry that this happened to you, hang in there.
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Old 07-18-06, 04:36 PM
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I have found that people do almost everything they do because of something that had to do with how they see themselves. It sounds like their image of a responsible and careful parent that they are trying to paint into their picture of their life hasn't considered they might not have you around as much later if they ruin their relationship with you now. Maybe if you make them sit down for a serious heart to heart and tell them you will have to make your mistakes in life and you will have to face the consequences. Let them know you want them to be there for you when you need them when you fall, but they have to trust you to protect yourself from causing serious falls. You will have to do it for the rest of you life. Might as well start learning now.
Just a suggestion.

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Old 07-18-06, 06:11 PM
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Piaszw,

I don't think you are being oversensitive at all. I can't imagine being subjected to that kind of physical abuse (because that's what it is).

I've never been molested or abused but there have been moments when male members of my family have gotten too close for comfort. I have male cousins who used to look at me in ways that made me very uncomfortable. They would say things to me that were made me feel very ashamed.
I also have a grandfather who was a little too affectionate. I wont go into details. It wasn't nearly to the the point that you describe. And i thik in my case the men involved didn't really know wht they were doing was innapropriate. Conbine that with how young I was and not having the words to to express my discomfort I never said anything. It doesn't happen anymore. but It does make me uncomfortable to think about it.

I'm also not a very "touchy feely" person. I love hugs, but i don't like people hugging my unexpectedly, and arms over my shoulder or pats on the back make me shrink away a little.

I'm sorry you had to go though those terrible expieriences. do you have friends you can got to for support? You have my thoughts and my prayers
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Old 07-18-06, 06:38 PM
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i understand fulley... ive been abused an sexaul abused a good part mylife by fanimly an at schoo;l by more than one so i understand all to well ....>>> iam allways here if you wish to talk to me....there no easy ways though it its a one day at a time thing an thats how i deal with it i find trusting anyone very hard an it dont take much for them to lose my trust in them????? dorm.....rembers its not you its about power an to control you ......<>l,(((((( by doing the opestize to that you gaine conrtol back....>>>dormy l,))) others are herr for you
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Old 07-20-06, 12:33 PM
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Thanks for your answers.
sorry, can't write more at the moment. Feel as if I'd break inside. I seem to realize now, that it felt abusive... Got a tsunami of feelings.

I felt as if they rejected me as a person, but for staring at my breasts and legs I was good enough.... Feel and felt used.

Other things pop up...

My mother kept telling me I had a bad figure ( Had rather large breasts, a little belly, no waist and smaller legs). My bra size was discussed at dinner and made fun of. My mother told me I should wear wide shirts to conceal my waist. She told me that she only weighed xxkg (definitely underweight) when she was my age. No wonder I became anorectic....

My parents did not do anything when I was molested three times. They kept telling us, that it was imagination when a woman was molested and that it was the womans fault when she was raped.

When my grandma came, my father became very bossy, as he wanted to show he was the head of the family. My grandma insisted, that my father got served first at lunch or dinner, then she as the oldest woman and then my mother, me, my little sister.

I still doubt my perception. I only know I felt like that, whether they intended it to be like that or I misinterpreted, I do not know.

Feel very very bad.

Still, I feel as if a door opened. Guess I won't recover until I allow my feelings, because otherwise there will still be the pressure to remind myself something went terribly wrong.

It's just so very painful
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Old 07-20-06, 03:24 PM
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I wanted to try to respond to this

I think this is a usefult topic. Nowadays we want children to repect their elders but we also want children to not allow anyone (strangers or family friends) to act inappropriately toward our children. But how do you teach this complex lesson to young children? It is about knowing that line, that thin line that when someone crosses it we need to be clear on how to respond to that. Sometimes parents don't take the time to teach this because they didn't really learn this from their parents.

Your parents taught you very unhealthy boundaries growing up. It was inappropriate to examine your genitals up until your early teens. But this is something you can deal with now as an adult. That is what most people come to terms with as an adult: unlearning the improper coping skills we learned from our parents. And changing these behaviors that were common place in our familiy but not appropriate now as adults.


My basic advice on how to maintain a healthy sense of boundaries with your family.
I take ownership of my feelings, my attitudes, my beliefs, etc. These personal things are mine and mine to own. I can not try to make anyone else responsible for my feelings, or my beliefs or my attitudes. This is not so easy though. Sometimes we can find ourselves saying "he made me mad." Or, "if I wasn't so ****ed off at you I might be enjoying myself." You can't make those statements and expect other people to respect your boundaries. I am always responsible for those things, and can not use my feelings to change someone's behavior. This is only one part though.

The other part is that if you don't want someone to give you a hug you don't have to explain WHY you feel that way. Your feelings are not something you should ever have to justify to anyone - even your parents, even your spouse. If anyone wants to question your feelings, or claim that they are not appropriate then that person is crossing a line with you. It is not for anyone else to tell you how you should feel or how you can feel or how you can't feel. That is always for you decide. And the same goes with your attitude.

(I am not saying that you can shut out your mate and avoid any and all intimacy. No, but when you are upset and don't wish to discuss your feelings just be firm and tell that person. You have the right to say "I don't wish to discuss my feelings right now." And don't explain why or anything else. That is always your option. Exercise that option anytime you need to.

If anyone wants to try to tell you how you should feel you should be firm and clear with them. You should state as plainly as possible that you will not discuss your feelings, or your beliefs, or your attitudes with that person. Do whatever you can to shut that discussion down. It is not for someone to bring up this topic with you. You, however, can share your feelings with someone if you feel like it. That is different. Your feelings are yours to dicsuss with anyone you want. But, if you bring up this topic, realize that sometimes people will tell you things about your feelings or attitudes that you may not want to hear. (Of course, we usually only open up about our feelings to those we trust.)

But to protect your boundaries you need to always own your feelings and never blame anyone else for them. But protect them from any kind of influence from others.

Now, sometimes we can have our employer want to tell us about our attitude. You want maintain your job but you should not allow someone to tell you what your attitude is. You can ask that person to explain their observations to you. But, this can be tricky with a boss. But if your friend says to you "I don't like the way you comment on my boyfriend." "I don't think you like my boyfriend." You should only address your specific behavior and NOT their reactions. You are not responsible for their reactions or their intrepration of your behavior. You are only responsible for you behavior, your actions.

Always own your behavior because your actions are yours to take responsibility for. So if someone wants to comment about your attitude then can question them on how it "shows" in your behavior. Otherwise if they just want to tell you what your attitude is that is not for them to say. (Don't be so blunt with a boss on this one though. "I appreciate your feedback on this. I would ask you to tell me what behavior of mine leads you to believe I have a bad attitude about my job, about this employee, about this task, etc. Sometimes when you try to pin people down you find that they are just projecting this stuff on you.)

If you father insists on these hugs or anything else you can try to talk to him. Try something like this: I ask you not to hug me because it makes me feel uncomfortable. Please respect me feelings, and I will respect your feelings. This is not about my feelings about YOU, but my feelings about being hugged by anyone. I hope you won't take this personally because it is not personal to you. I would appreciate it if you would respect my wishes on this.

If talking to that person does not work than you might have to take action. But it is always good to use your words when you have a problem with someone. It is not productive to "act out" your feelings (without first communicating to them) because you don't like someone's behavior. Again, by explaining your feelings to someone without going into details, you are owning those feelings. (And just leave it at "it makes me uncomfortable" and say no more about those feelings.)

Explain yourself first. If the person continues then you can try any and all avoidence tactics you can think of. But at least you explained yourself. And if you do give them the cold shoulder (figuratively speaking) at least you know you tried reasoning with them first.

But absolutely stand up to your father, or your mother. That is what being an adult is about. Our parents will always try to treat us like children because that is how parents are. (Old habits die hard.) But it is YOUR responsibility to remind them you are your own person and you decide on your personal boundaries. Don't allow anyone to violate your boundaries.

And this is something that parents will always challenge you on. Always be clear too with parents about making decisions. (All parents love to tell their kids what to do, what to decide, etc.) But this is what being an adult is about. Learning to stand up to your parents wanting to mother you when you don't want to be mothered or bossed around is a great way to feel independent and like a fully functioning, self-sufficient adult. Parents have a hard time letting go of the parenting role.
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Old 07-24-06, 04:40 AM
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@ QueensU_girl
Thanks. I don't know... I don't think there was more... I don't know how to "escape", I love my parents, too. But I decided to limit the contact and to go there only when my boyfriend accompanies me. I'll spend Christmas with him and his family, as it always explodes around Christmas.

@ AnneM: I am very sorry you made similar experiences. I know these dreams, in which much more happens. Wish none of us ever had to have them again. Although I wouldn't wish anyone to go through this, it's good for me someone feels similar about it... I feel less weird.

@ f_wcomboadhd: Thanks. I'm sorry all this happened to you. I think it's great you can think of others who were less hurt.

@ Effie: Yes, I'm seeing a therapist. I've also talked about it with my boyfriend and my best friend.

@ X-men: If I tried to talk with my parents about it, I'd be accused again of being weird and trying to ruin the family. I've tried to explain my father why I do not like to be hugged, but in his mind, he simply has a right to it...
hope it will never come to the point I have to hit him.

@Aizlyne: Thanks. It's good to hear I'm not overdoing.

@ dormammau: I'm sorry all this happened to you. Thanks for thinking of me

@ sepialady: You're right about boundaries. I've always fought to keep them outside... the problem is that I'm accused of not giving them what is theirs and of being cold and weird and rejecting. They try to make me feel guilty about my boundaries. They often say then, that I shouldn't think I'm thus important.


Thank you all for your replies. It is very difficult for me at the moment, as I do not really perceive my memories as "real". When I try to examine them more closely, everything becomes vague and blurred. I ask myself whether I really remember things or whether my memories fool me. I also ask myself whether it has really been that bad or whether I'm too sensitive and misinterpret things. It's so difficult... I never had a good relationship to my parents, but still, these things do not fit into my inner picture of them.
The main problem, I think is the intrusive behaviour on one side and on the other side they often failed to protect me. Now, sometimes they do.
I cannot understand why one could leave a child alone in such a situation:

- I was bullied at school and my parents blamed me... Guess they were disappointed I was not a nice and liked little sunshine
- When I was 15 and my sister 13, we spend our days at a remote beach during family holidays. One day, there were several men in the bushes who sprang naked in our view and masturbated. We were both quite shocked, as we had never seen an aroused man before...
Our parents didn't say anything about it, when we told them... they even let us go there again the next day and of cause, the same happened again.
- When I was 16 and became anorectic, my father denied me therapy, until my hair fell out and I got these tiny lanugo hairs all over my body

- 2 years ago I had to go to hospital as an emergency case. My boyfriend called my parents and just told them he'd call again if I had to undergo surgery the same night. My mother said something like "Oh, that doesn't matter, it's OK when we know tomorrow"

Because of the intrusion together with the failure to protect me, I sometimes feel used... as if they wanted to have from me what they liked, but didn't want me as a person or if I made problems.

But at least it has a name now. And I can cry and feel all the horror and loneliness I couldn't feel as a child.
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Old 11-22-08, 10:40 PM
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Re: Father/ no respect of privacy

thanks so much for starting this thread princess of chaos, most comforting and enlightening, whitestripes x


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Old 11-23-08, 05:53 AM
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Re: Father/ no respect of privacy

wow this is worse than having every single spot in your room gone through and every note, everything read through all the time (this is what i go through). It's worse than seeing you're dad hit someone in the head with a shovel (again yes). It's worse than having a dad who is stoned all the time (sigh yes). Oh yeah did i mention i hate mine as well? Mine pretend to care and if i get screamed (by dad usually) he'll come in and say 'sorry i didnt mean to get angry but you've got to do ...........' (as if he never screamed at me and that just fills me with rage). The day i said i want to see a psychologist mum jumped in and said 'whats the matter, you can talk to us' (when i know i cant as she tells EVERYONE about what i do, even this new medication i'm trying and hating, i asked her not to tell the whole world and she did). i'll stop ranting now.

But all that's nothing compared to what some people here have gone through. I don't know if it's just epic tiredness today but some posts brought tears to my eyes.
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Old 11-23-08, 06:13 AM
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Re: Father/ no respect of privacy


ok this is a pretty sensitive subject, and one that i find hard to reply to, but feel compelled to as just how many people are dealing with the same internal struggle feeling and so many conflicting thoughts ?
i know stuff was really wrong, back from being quite young, even though at times ive told myself im over reacting, you know like ,that wrong touch was just an accident, even though my sister experienced the same, the anger he showed when we tried to cover our bodies up, if he walked in on us.or grabbed the towel from our reach, so we were unable to.
all this was made all the more humiliating when we reached teenage years.
blatant obscene exposure even. but he always got awy with it, by saying it was natural, and we were warped for thinking differently,
this has lead like yourself to problems around men, and body image problems.
i suppose thats why i feel this thread so important, theres too many people living the same lie tht a parent told them, no resolution to it, cause they constantly doubt there role in it.

so whoever may read this, and connect, i hope it gives you the same clarity as it has myself, and with that, some degree of comfort,

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