Wellbutrin vs. Stimulants

[booger]

I got a question that maybe someone out there can help me answere, this has been diggin at my brain for so long. I am a former marijuana abuser and polysubstance experamentation so every doctor I see refuses to prescribe me anything that has the potential for abusing (even after telling them when I was 16 and my parents put me in rehab for my pot use and placed on Adderall in there) and I also suffer from depression, and I was thinking if Wellbutrin is prescribed for depression by helping the same chemicals as stimulants to go up, then esentially Adderall would pretty much do the same thing for someone who finds help from Wellbutrin only but without all the crappy side-effects right? Or does the Wellbutrin act in such a way that gives it a better antidepressant profile?

-BOOGER

[qinkin]

I found that Adderall can be a good anti-depressant. I've heard others have too. It raises your heart-beat-so if you apply your energies to postive stuff- you'll feel your heart-rate rise=which amplifies the feeling of having done something good, but it's not really an antidepressant.

All I know- when I was on Zoloft- it didn't help me very much w/ the feeling good part...I think the ADD itself was more of the problem-I need more stimulation, which anti-depressants don't directly affect. Adderall has really helped w/ that. The thing w/ Adderall- but the only way to really feel the effects of stimulants- is to do something-- you wouldn't get much benefit, as you might from an anti-depressant====just sitting there.

Was the Adderall helping you in rehab you think?

[speedo]

Welbutrin seems to work for some , but not for others. It works for me (ADHD combined type) but I have to be careful not to take too much or I develop anger.
I like the fact that you don't develop a tolerance for it and that it has few side effects.

I think that the stimulants like adderall, ritalin and dexadrine are probably more appropriate for treating focusing problems and hyperactivity, but if welbutrin works for you, you should stay with it.

ME

Originally Posted by booger

I got a question that maybe someone out there can help me answere, this has been diggin at my brain for so long. I am a former marijuana abuser and polysubstance experamentation so every doctor I see refuses to prescribe me anything that has the potential for abusing (even after telling them when I was 16 and my parents put me in rehab for my pot use and placed on Adderall in there) and I also suffer from depression, and I was thinking if Wellbutrin is prescribed for depression by helping the same chemicals as stimulants to go up, then esentially Adderall would pretty much do the same thing for someone who finds help from Wellbutrin only but without all the crappy side-effects right? Or does the Wellbutrin act in such a way that gives it a better antidepressant profile?

-BOOGER

[barbyma]

If you're depressed and it's not just a "ride along" with ADHD, my experience leads me to think you'd be best off taking care of the mood before you tackle the ADHD.

I've heard Wellbutrin works for some, so it's a good idea for a first try, but of course your doctor is the best person to make this decision....

[booger]

thats the thing, I have done ALL the antidepressants which added to my anxiety and just made me feel just apathetic, and just recently I started over with going through the antidepressants only this time I became manic and trashed my garage and punch a hole through the wall, so they placed me on Seroquel which I notice has brought me back to earth some but I still had some depression, anxiety and lack of modivation so he finally placed me on Wellbutrin and I have started to feel a little more modivated and I'm in a better mood but my anxiety is driving me nuts, I guess we can't have all things perfect. I will give it a go and see where is takes me.

[booger]

I think my depression comes from lack of self-esteem and lack of success, could this just be ADD related I think? I just don't feel happy my CBT is helping a little bit but sometimes I feel like I'm just walking in circles, never getting anywhere.

[booger]

BTW what dose do you take Speedo, I'm currently on 150 XL and am going to go to 300 next week.

[speedo]

I take 150 mg XL. I can stay on 300 mg for about 4 days. I can stay on 450 mg for a day. If I exceed my "limits" , I have anger. The proiblem is that it limits the dose I can take.

I also take rsiperdal for anxiety. It seems like an okay combo. No problems other than weight gain due to the risperdal.

ME

Originally Posted by booger

BTW what dose do you take Speedo, I'm currently on 150 XL and am going to go to 300 next week.

[barbyma]

booger --

If you are bipolar antidepressants can worsen symptoms. You might suggest to your doc next time that he/she think about this possibility.

I was diagnosed with chronic depression in my early 20s and spent a few years trying different antidepressants. Most of them would work for a couple of months (although there were a few I didn't tolerate at all, like Paxil), then I'd find myself in worse shape than before.

It wasn't until I was properly diagnosed and given a mood stabilizer that things straightened out. Now I take Prozac & it actually works. In fact, I stopped the mood stabilizer after a few years when I had my kids and haven't needed to return to it.

I didn't believe I was bipolar at first; I didn't fit the stereotype. But, you'll find that type II can vary a great deal from person to person.

Good luck!

[speedo]

Barb is right. antidepressants , particularly SSRI's can trigger mixed/manic bipolar episodes and it can be severe. I don't think welbutrin triggers bipolar mania, but it does trigger psycosis if a person has the tendency for it. Talk to your doctor about it before you make the decision.

Is this stuff complex, or what ?

ME

[booger]

hell yeah it's complex, my CBT therapist hooked me up with her psychiatrist who she works with who is also an "Addiction Specialist" let me tell you, this guy was so concentrated on my past drug use that EVERYTHING I said I felt like he was ignoring me, I told him that not long ago I got beat up and punched in the head pretty hard and got knocked out and I asked him if I could have gotten some damage that effects my memory and he said to me "no, it's all those powerful substances you have injested that messed up your head". Also the first time I went in to see him I was on Paxil (check out the Paxil frontal lobe syndrome thread I wrote) and I felt like I was totally out of it and could not follow a damn thing, so when I went to see him he accused me of being high on drugs and threated to give me a **** test, and took me off the paxil and put me on 100 mg. of seroquel, so then I go to see him a week later and tell him I'm feeling better now lets get to my ADD and he puts me up to 300 mg. of Seroquel and sends me out the door, another week later on 300 mg. and now I feel like I'm getting worse and even more aggitated and so I start getting a back bone and telling him that if he doesn't fix me then he is fired, he said he never had anyone talk to him the way I did, this scared me because he is suppose to be a specialist in addiction and mood disorders and I'm sure he has had WAY worse than me, I didn't even raise my voice to him. So now I'm looking for a new doctor..again.

[booger]

I hope I don't need to be on a mood stabilizer my whole life, I think psychadelic drug use probably triggered my bipolar mania, also ever since I was about 7 I had a hard time sleeping and when I did get sleep I had night terrors and slept walk, yup.. lifes been pretty ruff to me so far, hope it gets better in the future.

[barbyma]

Originally Posted by booger

I hope I don't need to be on a mood stabilizer my whole life, I think psychadelic drug use probably triggered my bipolar mania, also ever since I was about 7 I had a hard time sleeping and when I did get sleep I had night terrors and slept walk, yup.. lifes been pretty ruff to me so far, hope it gets better in the future.

Sleep problems in childhood are pretty common, but it sucks to go through that only to end up with even worse problems as an adult.

Chances are you will have to take a stabilizer your whole life, but there are much worse meds to deal with. I found stabilizers to be pretty innocuous.

If you are having a hard time with depression, you may have to take an antidepressant on top of it, but you may not.

Once you get the mood under control, you can address any ADHD problems that aren't being handled by the other meds.

Good luck. Sounds like you definitely need a new doc!

[Joyous56]

I was treated for depression for years, and under the care of a psychiatrist who monitored my moods and my meds. Finally, I admitted I was abusing alcohol....and worked on getting sober. After about 8 months sober, I asked about ADD, as I was experiencing many of the symptoms. I was diagnosed, and because of the alcoholism, my pdocs first suggestion was strattera, which is very similar to wellbutrin, and not thought to be addictive.

Strattera didn't make me feel any better, and had some crummy side effects. I told my doc, and he tried me on Ritalin....and I ended up on Concerta.

I am sure that any doctor who considers prescribing stimulants to someone who has had a history of addiction would want to start out with something that isn't addictive. And there is no doubt that he/she would consider it a matter of professional ethics to be reasonably certain that his/her patient had a committment to sobriety (including staying drug-free) before prescribing a stimulant.

It does sound like you need a new doctor, but you should also expect that the question will come up about potential abuse. I think that going to a new doctor and asking for a stimulant might raise some red flags.....but if you go in asking for help with the ADD/ADHD, with some recognitions of the risks of abuse with stimulants, it is more likely that you will be able to find a solution.

If you are experiencing a major depression, then I would think that alleviating the depression will be the number one goal.

Good luck...and keep us posted!

[vinceptor]

Hey Boog--

Here's my put:

I am currently taking WB, apparently for "side-effect" depression. I'm one of those few who cannot tolerate the post-Prozac SSRIs. I have never had any problems with WB, nothing like I had with the SSRIs (including the atypical Effexor). It doesn't help my AD/HD that much, and I take something else for that.

I started taking WB when I was being diagnosed with AD/HD. Yes, my MD prescribed it for multiple reasons: it was a "mild" antidepressant, and yes, the protocol seems to be to try and clear prior depression up before attacking the attentional issues, which it could actually be causing; it is also mildly effective in treating AD/HD symptoms in some people; the standard refs say it has also been successfully prescribed in treating smoking (and now shows in the research as possibly useful in treating drinking) addiction. Of course, there are potential drawbacks: the liver can be impacted and liver panels might need to be taken regularly (not for the vampire-averse ); there are side-effects (no surprise there) that may not seriously affect you.

If your MD has problems with prescribing to patients with prior abuse issues, this might be something he/she'd feel less paranoid about prescribing, and it might also be actually effective--you won't know until you try, as with any med. Of course, get the full story from your MD before getting a prescription, and its fully his/her decision what Rx to write for you.

Good luck and persist.