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  #136  
Old 01-20-09, 07:40 PM
Technojunkie Technojunkie is offline
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Very interesting. Where have you been buying your Pyritinol from? Brand?

I've been unsatisfied with the effects of Adderall and haven't taken it in a while. I was building up a tolerance, I had to take long naps for a couple of weeks after quitting. I've tried Brain Toniq but don't get very much benefit compared to "normal" people.
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  #137  
Old 01-22-09, 04:47 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technojunkie View Post
Very interesting. Where have you been buying your Pyritinol from? Brand?

I've been unsatisfied with the effects of Adderall and haven't taken it in a while. I was building up a tolerance, I had to take long naps for a couple of weeks after quitting. I've tried Brain Toniq but don't get very much benefit compared to "normal" people.

www.Bodybuilding.com search for pyritinol. It's brand is called "Unique Nutrition" although it may have changed to "Cognitive Nutrition."

Pyritinol doesn't really work that well by itself, at least in my experience. But combined with caffeine and L-Glutamine it works wonders.
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  #138  
Old 01-23-09, 05:52 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title -->Wow, after randomly falling on this SCT subject on wiki, and then finding this topic, I never really thought I had a disorder, but SCT fits me so well, it's hard to ingnore.

Ever since elementry school I've always had a motivational problem with work, I never studied, I would always do my projects the night before it's due, or even do it late and give it in a few days late(since I needed the teacher's push to get me motivated), but even with this said I always did good in school, I never got top notch grades in anything(but math n gym) since I would never study(but i'd still score 60-80's on my test) and mostly from not giving in projects or loosing points over giving it in late and this never bothered me at all, I just accepted it and moved on, I would rarely get stressed by anything. The only thing is that I was always good with math, and SCTers are supposed to be bad with math, but my reasoning with that, was that I was only good in math because I like math, it interests me so I was always focused to do it.

And I have found myself to be slow and not as witty orally but more fast and witty when writting, although with writting I've always had this annoying habbit where I would write a word and I would know that I'm misspelling it as I wrote it, I just wouldn't react till a few letters later or after finishing the word.

While socially people have always loved me since I was extremely laid back and I wouldn't be judgemental or aggressive, and I loved listening to people about their problems and help them, but then when it comes to topics that don't really interest me, I can't seem to communicate well, I end up drifting off for a bit and then changing the subject or fumbling with what to say which always rattled me since I know that I have such better or witter things to say.

I just recently graduated highschool, and enrolled into a trades program in college, since I was so unmotivated to do academic work and I loved sports/fitness, I figured it be best for me to do get into manual labour work, but what I found out was that the program wasn't mentally stimulating enough for me to be interested so I dropped out of the program and I've been thinking of going to university for botany, only problem is I'm scared my lack of motivation to do any work will flunk me out.

Also I've never been disgnosed with add or adhd, I'm pretty sure I got tested for it back in 3rd grade and they concluded I had nothing, so this is kinda controversial for me but I'm seeing the exact same problems I have in alot of people on this board and it's kinda comforting knowing that I could maybe help myself with this.

I have alot of other symptoms similar to some that people are recognizing in themselves, but I'm tired of writting and I need to force myself to sleep since its 5am.

Anyways, I've registered and I plan to keep tract of this subject since there isn't much on it anywhere else, and like I said, the similarities are too strong to ignore.
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  #139  
Old 01-23-09, 10:23 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Twitchy,
I have the SCT symptoms and I'm officially diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. I have always liked math, esp. Algebra. In college, I started out majoring in Math but I had trouble with Calculus and ended up changing my major to Accounting. I now work as an office manager/bookkeeper.

Hopefully, there will be more scientific studies on inattentive ADHD and on SCT symptoms. In the meantime, we have each other.
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  #140  
Old 01-26-09, 12:32 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

I'm very similar to Twitchy and ADDMagnet. Great at math until I hit Calculus, lousy speaker but very good writer, laid back, not aggressive, good listener, well liked, though my Asperger's could make me come across as judgmental. Terrible at sports, again probably due to Asperger's. The 30 point difference between my sluggish processing speed score and the other three components of the standard IQ test screams SCT.

I'm still puzzled as to why my ADD/SCT didn't start becoming a serious problem until 10th grade. The only thing I can think of is that we'd moved the year before and the new water system wasn't as good, lots of sediment, putting greater stress on my kidneys? Then I started going heavy on soft drinks and really fell apart. The whites of my eyes have been dull but they're starting to clear up, a sign of kidney function slowly returning? Blood work says that I'm fine though. This could be a separate issue or nothing at all. I do think that there's something to the theory that the utter crap that's in the modern diet puts stress on the body's filters and sets off all sorts of problems.

Captain Obvious: I haven't placed the order yet but I think I should give Pyritinol a try. L-glutamine, my notes say: transports ammonia to the liver, fuels cells lining the intestine, metabolizes into glutamate so MSG sensitivity is a problem. I still have some from back when I tried that and L-carnitine, without success. I had trouble with high serum ammonia, very common with Asperger's.
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  #141  
Old 01-26-09, 10:39 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technojunkie View Post
I'm still puzzled as to why my ADD/SCT didn't start becoming a serious problem until 10th grade.
that is very common for all inattentives. It's called "hitting the wall": and it happens at a given time depending on the seriousness of the attention problems and your intelligence.

If you're reasonably smart you can sort of "freewheel" through the lower grades so that you do not need to pay attention or process input at an adequate speed. You'll absorb the knowledge through osmosis (anyway, that is how it feels to me).
But when the complexity of the subject matter increases, you will have to listen to the teacher / read your books, and then the trouble begins.
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then softly she began to sing / a theme of sleep and slumbering
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  #142  
Old 01-26-09, 11:12 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

That makes sense. I'm a walking stereotype of the highly intelligent high-functioning Aspie, just with SCT thrown in to drive me mad. I could get by in high school without doing much homework but college would cram a year's worth of HS material into a single semester and you really had to read the book and do the homework or else. Reading the book was a foreign concept to me. I still managed to graduate but my grades weren't all that good.

Pyritinol is on its way. We'll see if that makes a difference.
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GET TESTED FOR HEAVY METALS! Read Andrew Cutler and this Mercury Detox site devoted to Cutler's protocol. Mercury fillings are the common but far from only source. Mercury is one cause of Convergence Insufficiency, treated with vision therapy, presents similar to ADHD-PI, will come back if you don't chelate mercury. Mercury can also screw up your adrenals which, again, looks a lot like ADD. Eat Paleo! Petrochemical food additives aggravate ADHD!
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  #143  
Old 01-26-09, 05:06 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technojunkie View Post
That makes sense. I'm a walking stereotype of the highly intelligent high-functioning Aspie, just with SCT thrown in to drive me mad. I could get by in high school without doing much homework but college would cram a year's worth of HS material into a single semester and you really had to read the book and do the homework or else. Reading the book was a foreign concept to me. I still managed to graduate but my grades weren't all that good.

Pyritinol is on its way. We'll see if that makes a difference.
Pyritinol has only a three hour half-life, so don't expect it to be a panacea for your disease. I use it mainly in the mornings to help me get dressed/take a shower faster. It's not like adderall XR or something like that that you can feel all day. You'll notice it when you're reading, especially. But, like I said, earlier, it works best in combination with some kind of stimulant. Even caffeine would work.
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  #144  
Old 01-28-09, 02:35 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Reading is my #1 problem so a few hours of clarity would be a godsend. What dosage of Pyritinol do you use? I haven't taken Adderall in a while but I still have some 10mg pills. I can go back to my doc for another prescription easily enough. Lately I've been drinking organic green tea with mint in the morning for a little caffeine, might just stick with that?

My Pyritinol is supposed to arrive tomorrow.
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GET TESTED FOR HEAVY METALS! Read Andrew Cutler and this Mercury Detox site devoted to Cutler's protocol. Mercury fillings are the common but far from only source. Mercury is one cause of Convergence Insufficiency, treated with vision therapy, presents similar to ADHD-PI, will come back if you don't chelate mercury. Mercury can also screw up your adrenals which, again, looks a lot like ADD. Eat Paleo! Petrochemical food additives aggravate ADHD!
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  #145  
Old 01-30-09, 07:31 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

***Note: The following post is IN NO WAY meant to demean or insult Cashiers, retail sales folks, janitors, or other members of the lower rungs of the business hierarchy, hell I counted myself in your ranks once....***

@ Echo5Tango:

Thank you for willing to be shot down in the line of fire, to help us blaze a new branch in the Attention Deficit Family!


@ the APA (folks behind the DSM):
2012-1994=18 years!!!

Computer processors have gotten 40+ times faster, and the DSM-IV is.... Waiting....
Why are we waiting until 2012?

I realize the previous political climate set us back a decade scientifically, but it's a new day...

It should be revved at least once every 4 years, that's more than enough time for innovative research.

@ ADHDer's who are threatened by ADD-SCT:

In the immortal words of the Chili Peppers:


I love all of you
Hurt by the cold
So hard and lonely too
When you don't know yourself


I'm happy that the ADHDers can easily and concretly identify their traits,
We want to "know ourselves" too. I have no qualms about ADD-SCT(Beta).
Plus I'd love to have some of the Energy that ADHDer's can't get rid of.
ADD-SCT(Beta) is like "Oh my god! Somebody pull this piano off my chest so I can get out the damn door."

Nobody is any less of a human being just because your frontal striatums (See DAT1 Gene) are more affected vs our frontal parietals (See DRD4 Gene), and combined types as well of course are mixtures of these variants. (Biology is complicated to the point of insanity.)
Here's the link (6th post down whole article enclosed): http://www.addforums.com/forums/show...&highlight=SCT

Kudos to Scuro for being awesome enough to include some lucid research in that thread!

Hell after diagnosis (TOVA), I was much humbled, relieved, then after Rx Adderall I just stopped judging anyone and everyone, if a little pill could make me THAT much better, then the enormity of my deviation from "normal" finally came crashing down on my consciousness.

It's still Attention Deficit, it's a big tent. Your family still loves you.

I like SCT(Beta), it brings clarity to what was neutrally coined "brain fog" or a "processing disorder", after being negatively labelled "laziness". As if a general term like "Processing Disorder" sheds any light on this. The more granular and precise the information the better.

Sure it's not rubber stamped yet, so lets call it SCT(Beta) {this is meant to be funny ha-ha} as in "Beta stage of development" not suitable for production use or widespread diagnostic glee, but you're still highly encouraged to download it and poke around. That way it can continue to be referred to without ruffling the "officially released label" folks' feathers.
It's still in Beta

I'm particularly interested in the working memory symptomology.

Have you guys heard of the correlation between working memory and Nicotine?

Makes me want to yank those carcinogenic support sticks out from under those folks at the office who act so "we're above it all, we're normal and cool" Watch em flagellate as thier neural crutches crack under the weight of knowledge work.

Maybe I like to judge, judgmental "normal people".

It's the working memory that wreaked havoc on my Algebra years!
SCT types have little to no visual problems so I would constantly try to draw the changes in equations.

Strong grounding metaphors and illustrative schemas worked wonders.

After taking some Psych courses at College, I stumbled on how memory works.
Now I repeat all my chapters at least 5 times, just to saturate my memory properly.
I figure of my working memory is dropping out at random intervals then only through repeated exposure to the same material can I hope to gain a comprehensive grasp of the subject matter.
And I try to incorporate what I already know sometimes about totally unrelated subjects to aid in "velcroing" the new knowledge in place.

Here's the link:
http://neuromanagement.wordpress.com...filing-system/

It must be nature's little Joke that good is thrown in with the bad, things like artistic ability or high intelligence often accompany ADD/ADHD. Just enough to know you're bright, but not so little as to allow you to live an ignorantly blissful moronic life...

Sometimes I wonder, if my IQ had been in the high 90s might I have had a generally happier life, resigned to the cash register, with a coterie of similarly gifted friends and coworkers....

Rather than slogging about in the 21st century knowledge economy with a mind only partially suited to the task.

I guess I'll never know...
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  #146  
Old 01-30-09, 10:13 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

re. correlation nicotine <-> working memory: I've heard no 'hard data' so far but I'd be very interested to hear about it.

When I quit smoking (both attempts, last one succeeded) I started getting extremely slow and foggy after a couple of weeks. Eventually it turned into very bad bad anxiety / crying spells, to the point of unable to work. First time I took up smoking again and the symptoms vanished in a day. The 2nd time got Luvox and eventually the anxiety became maneagable. It only vanished completely when I started on dex.

Oh and I wonder about what a lot of you describe as "slow thinkin". I recognize that only in specific cases: 'creative thinking' is actually very fast.
But trying to follow an explanation given orally is like wading through a meter of treacle.
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then softly she began to sing / a theme of sleep and slumbering
wandering, woven with deeper spell / than songs wherewith in ancient dell
Melian did once the twilight fill / profound, and fathomless, and still.

-- the Lay of Leithian. J.R.R. Tolkien

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  #147  
Old 01-30-09, 12:41 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

I once met a lady from Spain,
Who began to become a big pain.
Said, "You ought to vamose."
She thought I said, "...moose."
And I never saw her again.


What I'd like to know is, why can I pop this out of my head from out of nowhere, but cannot remember numbers long enough to do simple calculations?
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  #148  
Old 01-30-09, 02:23 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

OHPE: Sometimes I wonder, if my IQ had been in the high 90s might I have had a generally happier life, resigned to the cash register, with a coterie of similarly gifted friends and coworkers....

Rather than slogging about in the 21st century knowledge economy with a mind only partially suited to the task.

I guess I'll never know...



When I was tested for ADD, I was told by the woman who did the testing, "If it weren't for your IQ, you'ld never notice you had a problem. As it is, though, you have a razor-sharp focus on your mental deficits and only a vague idea of of your abilities."

My fellow construction workers are (generally!) all over drinking, cars, sports, partying, television, sexy and bloody movies... "...faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money."

I like following social trends, religion, politics, acoustic music, human anatomy, biology, and behavior, and hiking in the mountains... "I love mankind. It's people I can't stand!"
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  #149  
Old 01-30-09, 03:01 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote scuro:
<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> SCT
-A significant subset are hypoactive and sluggish and have slow response speeds.
-Primary deficit in working memory, especially prominent in auditory processing because of the demands it places on working memory
</td></tr></tbody></table>
I used to feel sluggish in the morning till I started working memory training about 6 months ago. I was quite surprised to see that the most useful result from the WM training was better alertness. I'm guessing that the working memory and sluggishness issues are in the same area of the brain. I completed the training several months ago and still feel very alert in the morning. It was a nice, unexpected bonus.

If you're interested in WM training, checkout Cogmed (see link in my footer) or the Brain Fitness Program by Posit Science.
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Metronome timing exercises have greatly reduced my restlessness/hyperactivity. See more

Other therapies/supplements that I've found helpful:

Working memory training (Cogmed): 7/08-8/08. See more
Brain Fitness Program by Posit Science: !!! excellent !!!
Learning Breakthrough Program: 7/07-4/08. See more

High EPA/DHA ratio Omega3's & Magnesium
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Old 01-30-09, 04:00 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

ADD-SCT(Beta) is like "Oh my god! Somebody pull this piano off my chest so I can get out the damn door."

YES!!!
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