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  #166  
Old 03-19-09, 04:26 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

There's a couple things i forgot to mention though. I am not only on strattera. I am also taking zyprexa 5mg for mood and celexa for anxiety/depression. Over the summer i took effexor 150mg and celexa 20mg and it didn't work good for me. So i have to assume that it's the combo that is making it work for me
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  #167  
Old 03-19-09, 04:34 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

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Originally Posted by yankees440 View Post
There's a couple things i forgot to mention though. I am not only on strattera. I am also taking zyprexa 5mg for mood and celexa for anxiety/depression. Over the summer i took effexor 150mg and celexa 20mg and it didn't work good for me. So i have to assume that it's the combo that is making it work for me
did you try out other meds before that?
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  #168  
Old 03-19-09, 04:50 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Yes. i am 21 now. When i was 16 i was put on paxil for social anxiety disorder. I went off it when i was 18. I went on celexa 20mg when i was 20. Last May i went on effexor 75 titrated up to 150mg while also on celexa 20mg. In august, after being majorly depressed, my doctor put me on zyprexa 2.5mg in addition to effexor 150mg and took me off celexa. In september, my doc put me on strattera 40mg twice a day, took me off effexor completely, put me back on celexa 40mg, and raised me up to 5mg zyprexa. In january, i was titrated up to 60mg twice daily on strattera, 5mg zyprexa, and 40mg of celexa. This combination of meds has been working really good for me so far.
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  #169  
Old 03-20-09, 04:06 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

So I've come to the conclusion that this SCT thing is a glutamate malfunction. NOT a dopaminergic or norepinephrinergic one. That said amphetamines DO help, but indirectly.

Let me explain.

I was put on a medication called namenda that is called an "NMDA'' receptor antagonist. The neurotransmitter glutamate binds to this receptor. So this medication prevents glutamate from binding to these receptors. What's the purpose of this? Read on...

Amphetamines stimulate LOTS of different neuro transmitters, thus they have very potent effects. However, has anyone else noticed that they seem to lose their potency after a few days? That's because of glutamate.

Glutamate is toxic to neurons in high amounts. Amphetamines raise glutamate to toxic amounts, EVEN at normal therapeautic dosages. In other words, you don't have to be an ABuser to experience the neurotoxicity over time.

Your body's response to this is to de-sensitize the glutamate receptors. THIS ACTION makes amphetamines SAFE to take for long periods of time without damaging the brain permanently.

HOWEVER, by doing this, you lose some of the effects. The HIGH ENERGY, SPEED, MOOD, AND MOTIVATION effects.

This is NOT to say that stims are dangerous. They are extremely safe if taken responsibly. BUT, their theraputic potential is VASTLY reduced over time.... Even so, they're better than nothing.

Getting back to my Namenda and NMDA glutamate receptors, Namenda REGULATES these receptors so that healthy levels of glutamate can still flow, but not the unhealthy levels. It puts a CEILING effect on glutamate binding, so to speak.

What this does is ELIMINATE THE TOLERANCE TO AMPHETAMINE'S "FIRST FEW DAYS" EFFECTS. This is MUCH more therapeutic than amphetamine consumption over-time WITHOUT the protective effect of Namenda.

Namenda is actually an Alzheimer's medication, and it's mechanism of action on regulating the glutamate neurotransmitter is helpful in this disease....

So, in other words, this tolerance-blocking effect is a SIDE EFFECT!!!

At the end of all this... when the train of confusing information reaches the station, so to speak, is that you can ENHANCE the performance of your medication to not only be "normal" but even BETTER THAN NORMAL. In other words... REACH YOUR FULL POTENTIAL!

How can you do this?? More on that next post...



Wow.... re-reading that makes it look like I'm some kind of medication sales-person. I'm NOT. This post is based on my experiences and my research as an individual, and I have no affiliation with any pharmaceutical company. I am not trying to sell my ideas for any personal gain. I am merely posting this information to help people on this site.
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  #170  
Old 03-20-09, 04:48 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memantine (aka Namenda)
Lots of good stuff there, including a link to an "Open-Label Pilot Study of Namenda in Adult Subjects With ADHD and ADHD NOS":
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...6573?term=ADHD
Oh man, I would love to get in on that study. It looks like they're targeting adult inattentives. Massachusetts is too far for me to travel though.

I look forward to your next post Captain Obvious!
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  #171  
Old 03-20-09, 05:31 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

This subject has come up before here:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/arch...p/t-21116.html
http://www.addforums.com/forums/arch...p/t-21882.html
Namenda is used on autistics too with mixed but often very good results, especially on the milder end of the spectrum. It sounds like a very expensive drug?
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  #172  
Old 03-20-09, 07:07 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
So I've come to the conclusion that this SCT thing is a glutamate malfunction. NOT a dopaminergic or norepinephrinergic one. That said amphetamines DO help, but indirectly.

Let me explain.
So what research did you do to arrive at this conclusion? Or is it your own experience combined with reading available information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
However, has anyone else noticed that they [amphetamines] seem to lose their potency after a few days?
No, not at all...

I've used it over a year now, and it still works as well as it did on the first day.
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  #173  
Old 03-23-09, 04:04 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

please don't tell me they lose potency... lol

how soon do people feel it lose potency? i have been on amphetamines for 3 weeks now and i haven't felt it work any less. when i first read this post i feel convinced i must have sct... it explains so much! and yes i do have add-pi, yet amphetamines have worked wonders for me.
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  #174  
Old 03-23-09, 07:52 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

I've been on amphetamines (Vyvanse) for 10 months now and I haven't seen any loss in potency.
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  #175  
Old 03-24-09, 01:01 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Interesting.... I guess it depends on the "effects" you're describing... The attention affect is documented to acutaly INCREASE with repeated dosing. But what I'm talking about are the giddy, happy, motivated feelings. The "magic" if you will.... but who knows, maybe at certain doses or with certain people tolerance does not develop. All I know is that it does for me.

More on increasing brain potential in addition to amphetamines later.
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  #176  
Old 03-26-09, 06:43 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

I've noticed that amphetamines lose their punch over time with me too. I've been taking a day or two off a week to help prevent that.

I'm starting to think that I got my ADD under control some time ago and what I'm left with is an eye problem. Convergence insufficiency is the popular one for ADHD patients, with three times the likelyhood of CI than the general population and visa-versa. It fits with late presentation (~15 for me) too. If you're expending extra energy keeping your eyes on track you'll have less energy to process what you're reading. I suspect that taking medical grade amphetamines helps to counterweight that fatigue. CI and other such problems are independent of whether you have 20/20 vision so it's easy to miss. Optometrists occasionally know, ophthalmologists rarely do. At this point reading is my #1 problem and the year I started to fall apart was also the year my eyes got bad enough to require glasses, plus doing things like marathon video game sessions used to really mess up my head. If your symptoms started late like mine did that may suggest an eye problem?

Much better link: Convergence insufficiency

The subject occasionally shows up here, like in this thread:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13750

Another website:
http://www.convergenceinsufficiency.org/

I'm speculating that people who don't have trouble with stimulant resistance have "real" ADHD-PI and that the rest of us only have an eye problem or had ADHD-PI but got it under control. I've made an appointment to be checked out. I've been wondering why staying focused on heavy reading is still so troublesome despite my mind having largely cleared up.
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  #177  
Old 03-27-09, 12:22 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Technojunkie, I also checked out convergence insuffiency, and found an optometrist who confirmed I had it (didnīt tell her anything about my problems, just went for a check, so that is objective). HOWEVER. I noticed that my problems with eye focus has improved a lot on Strattera, and that the improvement in how easy it is to controle eye movements parallells the improvement in controling the rest of my body. The prefrontal cortex and neighbouring areas are very important in integrating motoric signals to create smooth, effective movements. I think the ADD could be causing the eye problems, and not the other way around.
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  #178  
Old 03-27-09, 01:03 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomoxetine (Strattera)

Interesting. No generic in America so it must be expensive and the potential side effects are worrying. I've been getting by with 10mg Adderall once per day lately so I think I'll stick with that for now. We'll see if vision therapy does anything. Given my late presentation I suspect that it will. It sounds like I'll be on some kind of meds no matter what though?

Another thing: my mathematical ability wasn't nearly as impaired as general reading. Perhaps because math has far fewer symbols to read? I do most computation in my head, to the annoyance of teachers who wanted me to show my work. Standardized tests, with their short questions, work very well for me while real work wears me down.
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GET TESTED FOR HEAVY METALS! Read Andrew Cutler and this Mercury Detox site devoted to Cutler's protocol. Mercury fillings are the common but far from only source. Mercury is one cause of Convergence Insufficiency, treated with vision therapy, presents similar to ADHD-PI, will come back if you don't chelate mercury. Mercury can also screw up your adrenals which, again, looks a lot like ADD. Eat Paleo! Petrochemical food additives aggravate ADHD!
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  #179  
Old 03-27-09, 07:27 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Okay, I was gonna fill you in with how I got phenominal results off a certain combination of supplements/drugs that mediate glutamate and it's receptors, but it appears I have some more homework to do.

Ironically, even though that all the stuff I mentioned about amphetamine tolerance and NMDA antagonists is completely true without a doubt.... and DOESN'T go away with time... My way of taking it one step further and maximizing the glutamate flow in those same pathways that ARE completely protected and do not get damaged with my method (I think... not sure) seems to have a point of diminishing returns.... i.e. you can get tolerant to THAT... It only works for a couple days... but still prevent tolerance to your drugs indefinitely. That tolerance does NOT go away, at least from my experience.

No doubt most of you are probably confused by now, but basically my way of doing it was -- for all you street car racers -- was like running the brain just under redline. Namenda prevents the RPM from reaching the redline... but if you push that to the limit, it appears your body STILL desensitizes it, even though it's not over the threshold level. But, at the same time, you still don't develop tolerance to your ADDERALL.... but just to my "overdrive" method. Which combined some supplements to it.

I still don't believe it's dangerous, because what I'm using to achieve that "overdrive" is a combination of amino acids and vitamins, not other strange chemicals, but I need to work on it a bit before I can figure out a way to either stop that desensitization, or find a schedule to keep tolerance at a minimum... i.e. how long a break before it will work again.

If you're still confused, I don't blame you. I'm kinda being vague intentionally... I'm not hiding any dangers, I'm just hiding the final model before I'm satisfied that it will work consistently....

Again, I'm no pharmacy rep, or supplement rep... I'm not researching/producing any kind of product that I'll benefit on... I just wanna wait till I get it figured all out before I release the knowlege of it... and to make sure that it's safe... so people won't go trying it out and messing with their brains, because it DOES produce INCREDIBLE results at first, but then they seem to dissipate. *sighs* I guess that's the way life is... every good thing has a catch... and the more profound the benefit, the more likely it is to be dangerous.

Anyway... After I do some homework and get a "tolerance schedule" worked out... I'll present it to you... it's really just a combination of vitamins and proteins... but it's a specific combination that produces these results.



Also, technojunkie, the L-Dopa dangers I mentioned (like producing Parkinson's symptoms) I've found were slightly pre-mature conclusions. From my research recently -- and from my personal experience, cause I use it almost every day -- it appears that the damage/bad side effects only occur in those who's brains are damaged in the first place... (i.e. you have to have Parkinson's or something similar, which is a desease of a DEFECT OF PROTECTIVE MECHANISMS, to get the bad side effects... i.e. again... you have to have the disease for the medicine to produce the side-effects (irony?) because a HEALTHY brain can protect itself against it)


In other words, it works fine with no problems in people with healthy brains. I know this from experience and can direct you to a site where a poster who is very knowlegable on the subject has posted a multitude of valid, legitimate scientific studies proving it does not pose much of a threat in healthy brains, as long as it's used responsibly.
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Why the hell does everybody list their medication regimen in their sig?

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  #180  
Old 03-28-09, 07:47 AM
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Lightbulb Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Hey there just saying sup? Like many of you, I get bored and depressed easily. I have to be stimulated all the time.
Conversations rarely pull me out of whereever I'm at mentally. I guess that one's a little more ADHD-I, but fudge it.I can't hold a conversation to save my life. I always envied those who could. When I'm with a good friend, my mind can function fast enough to hold a decent conversation. I often have to ask twice to get a grasp on anything verbal. I often come off as dull and slow. Holding eye contact seems liek an overload no one else can understand. People always made fun of me for my slowness. The more I forgot, the worse I would forget. It's all too arduous. I just make sure things are done at my speed now. I work at a fairly repititious job, which rarely stresses me out. With the lowered stress comes a lot of boredom. I have to ask my bosses to switch me around every once in a while just save my sanity.
School always bored me and I was edxhausted all the time. I never studied in high school. I just relied on whatever knowledge I gleaned to pass the ACTs to get into university. I had a 1.6 gpa.In college, I crammed like most of you. I always passed the finals, but felt like I coulda done more.
My only cure for my fog has been stimulation. I get this from athletics, travel, and caffeine. The caffeine is my drug of choice. Most my friends and cooworkers woudl hurl if they drank the amount of coffee I did every work day. During school, I could focus only if I had a coffee before or during lectures. Weekends require less caffeine. It doesn't cure anythning, just helps maintain a slightly higher leval of concentration than normal. Athletics help get the heart rate up, but travel is the ultimate adreniline rush for me. I only feel alive then. New places and cultures waiting to be explored.
After my latest trip, things seem to have gotten better. I think that I may have developed better coping methods or something while away. I stll have problems, but they seem less important now. Thanks for taking the tme for me. I didn't know there were others out there that can feel my daily existance.
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