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  #271  
Old 01-16-10, 06:54 PM
irony irony is offline
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by d3xter404 View Post


This is a combination of internet research on provigil, neuron related reseach, and my own speculation, so don't take it as gospel. There are some other factors that play in and help support this basic idea, but I can't remember it all off the top of my head and don't have time to re-look it up. But thoughts, both pro and con are welcome.

My experiences with traditional stimulants and straterra/wellbutrin seem to conform somewhat with this theory. That is, taking stimulants, etc. seems to improve some symptoms by giving energy, waking me up, and speeding me up. But my thoughts are not as 'elegant' as I would hope normal to be. My working memory is still horrible and my thoughts fleeting and sometimes disjointed. My theory is that normal stimulants are increasing the firing rate, but not addressing the coordination by improving synchonicity, thus the encoding/modeling complexity that can be achieved by the smaller neuron populations has not really improved. And the signal/noise ratio is still low because the noise is likely as amplified as the signal since the stimulants are likely just lowering the effort required to reach an action potential.
I feel exactly the same way on stimulants. For me, desirpramine (the TCA) helps a lot to focus and organize my thoughts. I write computer software, and on stimulants my designs are very sloppy, but on desipramine that are extremely tight and well-thought out.
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  #272  
Old 01-24-10, 05:38 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Can those with SCT speak very fast in certain subjects? I am very slow most of the time, but other times, when I'm trying to let something out, I speak at hyper-speed.
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  #273  
Old 01-26-10, 02:14 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

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Originally Posted by dude102 View Post
Can those with SCT speak very fast in certain subjects? I am very slow most of the time, but other times, when I'm trying to let something out, I speak at hyper-speed.
I believe I have SCT. I'm usually slow to speech and slow with using speech... but every once and a while I'll be able to express myself very quickly.

The problem is that even though I'm speaking quickly I've sort of shut off that part of me that is trying to talk clearly. Other people can barely keep up, and there can often be mistakes and wrong words thrown in.

I'm also fairly intelligent and when my problem solving skills are taxed more than my working memory skills I can think very fast.
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  #274  
Old 01-26-10, 09:24 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

WOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! if i tried to explain how well this describes me id just be quoting the entire article!!! i cant believe this...

from the medicine, to the sluggishness, to..all of it....they need to hurry up and make this official!!!
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  #275  
Old 01-29-10, 12:48 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

hello everyone. I am new here and this is my first post.

What a revelation this SCT is. I think it describes me very well. I test high for intelligence and thrive in the world of abstractions such a philosophy, theology, sociology, etc. But, still I am the last one to get a joke or an out of context reference in conversation. People find my conversation ponderous, deep but quite slow moving. So, I think SCT does describe me.

I have inattentive ADD, social anxiety and left to my own devices am utterly hopeless at sorting papers or ordering my desk. Projects, deadlines etc. are easily forgotten, lost somewhere in my inner cosmos. I often lack motivation and typically hit a wall around lunch time which leaves me all but unmoveable.

Recently, I have experienced a dramatic change, though. My new nurse practitioner who only treats ADD/ADHD patients and is brilliant with matching drugs to behaviour patterns and descriptions of feelings, took me off of Concerta and put me on Aderall (40mg of XR and 20mg regular). This made a huge difference in my attention capacity, but I was still feeling unmotivated and without energy. He then gave me Welbutrin and built me up to 300mg, the target dose. Wow, what an immense difference. At age 44, I have never felt so alert and, well, just conscious before. A once intractable fog has lifted. Now, without requiring a major act of the will, I can do my to do list, and without drama.

My only fear is that for some reason or other this might be temporary or something. But, at the moment it is making a remarkable difference. As far as CST goes, I think there is some good improvement there, too. But, it might be just a little early to tell. I am coming up on 30 days on this new combination.

Anyone else have something like this?

john arthur

Recently, though, I have found a
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  #276  
Old 01-29-10, 03:15 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by john arthur View Post
hello everyone. I am new here and this is my first post.

What a revelation this SCT is. I think it describes me very well. I test high for intelligence and thrive in the world of abstractions such a philosophy, theology, sociology, etc. But, still I am the last one to get a joke or an out of context reference in conversation. People find my conversation ponderous, deep but quite slow moving. So, I think SCT does describe me.

I have inattentive ADD, social anxiety and left to my own devices am utterly hopeless at sorting papers or ordering my desk. Projects, deadlines etc. are easily forgotten, lost somewhere in my inner cosmos. I often lack motivation and typically hit a wall around lunch time which leaves me all but unmoveable.

Recently, I have experienced a dramatic change, though. My new nurse practitioner who only treats ADD/ADHD patients and is brilliant with matching drugs to behaviour patterns and descriptions of feelings, took me off of Concerta and put me on Aderall (40mg of XR and 20mg regular). This made a huge difference in my attention capacity, but I was still feeling unmotivated and without energy. He then gave me Welbutrin and built me up to 300mg, the target dose. Wow, what an immense difference. At age 44, I have never felt so alert and, well, just conscious before. A once intractable fog has lifted. Now, without requiring a major act of the will, I can do my to do list, and without drama.

My only fear is that for some reason or other this might be temporary or something. But, at the moment it is making a remarkable difference. As far as CST goes, I think there is some good improvement there, too. But, it might be just a little early to tell. I am coming up on 30 days on this new combination.

Anyone else have something like this?

john arthur

Recently, though, I have found a

Do notice a difference in your ability to pick up out of context jokes?
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  #277  
Old 01-29-10, 10:43 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Dude102,

Great question. It is too early to tell. I do notice a reduction in my social anxiety, but I still have to overcome some of my bad social habits which is an area that was naturally undeveloped over the years and worsened as I lost some of my youthful self confidence/unawareness.

As far as being still a beat behind everyone else in "getting it," I'm going to have to pay attention to that. I am still in my first 30 days and the effects are still growing, so we'll see.

Also, have been an insomniac forever. Have noticed it is easier to sleep but I sleep more lightly and wake early and refreshed like never before in my life.
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  #278  
Old 01-30-10, 11:27 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

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Originally Posted by dude102 View Post
Do notice a difference in your ability to pick up out of context jokes?
I'm really curious about others with the SCT symptoms and their ability to handle social situations too.

I can pick up the broad social cues, but to be able to react to them is very difficult, sometimes impossible.

Personally I love humor, but I find it difficult sometimes to pick up on a joke... especially the sarcastic variety.

In terms of SCT being a problem of Input and Output, it seems to hit the head perfectly when describing my social problems. I'm slow to pick up social cues, even though I can do it given enough time. And I'm slow to respond to social cues, even though I can also do this given enough time.

This combination had me believing I had Aspergers for a real long time. But the rare social fluency I can attain has me thinking otherwise.
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  #279  
Old 02-01-10, 04:47 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Originally Posted by d3xter404


This is a combination of internet research on provigil, neuron related reseach, and my own speculation, so don't take it as gospel. There are some other factors that play in and help support this basic idea, but I can't remember it all off the top of my head and don't have time to re-look it up. But thoughts, both pro and con are welcome.

My experiences with traditional stimulants and straterra/wellbutrin seem to conform somewhat with this theory. That is, taking stimulants, etc. seems to improve some symptoms by giving energy, waking me up, and speeding me up. But my thoughts are not as 'elegant' as I would hope normal to be. My working memory is still horrible and my thoughts fleeting and sometimes disjointed. My theory is that normal stimulants are increasing the firing rate, but not addressing the coordination by improving synchonicity, thus the encoding/modeling complexity that can be achieved by the smaller neuron populations has not really improved. And the signal/noise ratio is still low because the noise is likely as amplified as the signal since the stimulants are likely just lowering the effort required to reach an action potential.
I feel exactly the same way on stimulants. For me, desirpramine (the TCA) helps a lot to focus and organize my thoughts. I write computer software, and on stimulants my designs are very sloppy, but on desipramine that are extremely tight and well-thought out.



I understand and completely agree with this statement... I am currently on stimulants because they are currently better than nothing...but I have no organizational capacity....I don't know what else to look into because theres very little information on SCT
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  #280  
Old 02-03-10, 08:03 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
Originally Posted by john arthur View Post
hello everyone. I am new here and this is my first post.

What a revelation this SCT is. I think it describes me very well. I test high for intelligence and thrive in the world of abstractions such a philosophy, theology, sociology, etc. But, still I am the last one to get a joke or an out of context reference in conversation. People find my conversation ponderous, deep but quite slow moving. So, I think SCT does describe me.

I have inattentive ADD, social anxiety and left to my own devices am utterly hopeless at sorting papers or ordering my desk. Projects, deadlines etc. are easily forgotten, lost somewhere in my inner cosmos. I often lack motivation and typically hit a wall around lunch time which leaves me all but unmoveable.

Recently, I have experienced a dramatic change, though. My new nurse practitioner who only treats ADD/ADHD patients and is brilliant with matching drugs to behaviour patterns and descriptions of feelings, took me off of Concerta and put me on Aderall (40mg of XR and 20mg regular). This made a huge difference in my attention capacity, but I was still feeling unmotivated and without energy. He then gave me Welbutrin and built me up to 300mg, the target dose. Wow, what an immense difference. At age 44, I have never felt so alert and, well, just conscious before. A once intractable fog has lifted. Now, without requiring a major act of the will, I can do my to do list, and without drama.

My only fear is that for some reason or other this might be temporary or something. But, at the moment it is making a remarkable difference. As far as CST goes, I think there is some good improvement there, too. But, it might be just a little early to tell. I am coming up on 30 days on this new combination.

Anyone else have something like this?

john arthur

Recently, though, I have found a
I'm your intellectual doppelganger, more or less. I could sit down and talk to you about Hegel's influence on Romantic Nationalism, modern vs postmodern views of science, yada yada; give me a list of mundane tasks, however, and you might as well count them as lost in the Ethers because, well, they are. I'm a good writer, except for all those words I skip. I'm a decent carpenter, except that I take a measurement and immediately write down the wrong number. I'm also lathargic, a fact that inevitably derails any project I manage to even begin. That expalins why I was able to teach myself C#, rewrite nearly all of a fairly complex utility, only to leave it unfinished. It's sitting on my hard drive with a novel, a nearly finished journal article, and a million other untied ends.

Like you, Adderall was like stepping out of a lifelong fog. It was amazing. Unfortunately, I built up a tolerance to it and it no longer works. I'm back to where I started. I hope that doesn't happen for you.

After following one of the links above, I found this lecture reprinted by the Charles Schwab foundation. Start on page 5. It describes us to a tee. It also argues that the inattentive type of ADHD is actually a different disorder. That explains why you didn't respond to Ritalin/Concerta like other ADHD people do, but you did respond to Adderall, like other inattentive types do. Anyway, this is one of the best things on ADHD I've ever read. The author is Russell Barkley, a research scientist at SUNY, so don't worry that it's pseudoscience or anything like that: (pdf) http://www.greatschools.org/pdfs/2200_7-barktran.pdf?date=4-12-05
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  #281  
Old 02-06-10, 03:11 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

I haven't read the entire thread (I have read a lot of it, though!), and forgive my desperation, but...

I am 28. I've been on a number of different antidepressants in my life (Paxil, Celexa, Effexor, Wellbutrin), but that was before I discovered that I had been living with ADHD-I (and what my psychologist referred to as a "processing speed disability," describing it as something that sounds exactly like SCT). In fact, I had been in the process of weening myself when this happened late last year, and so I'm currently on 100mg of Wellbutrin (formerly 300mg as well as 150mg of Effexor).

I started a Concerta trial (I'm now up to 54mg), and while I have more energy and motivation, it's also left me (like many others) jittery, a little anxious, and more likely to stumble conversationally. My heart rate is also up, which I can tell without being told. And reading (maintaining focus in general, really) remains difficult regardless, unfortunately. I seem to be making more careless mistakes (you may even find a few of them in this post) than ever, which is frustrating considering that I am an English major with high language skills!

So, there are upsides, but a few downsides as well, in other words.

What would folks recommend? Should I try a lower dose again? Should I switch to something like Adderall? What about the antidepressants? I've been on some in the past, but wasn't trying to treat the root problem at that time. Still, I hated the side effects - the lack of sexual interest, the weight gain, the sweating, etcetera. But I was also on fairly high doses. On the other hand, I'm still taking 100mg of Wellbutrin! So I don't know.

Have folks had success with exercising and diet changes? What about vitamin supplements? I hear a lot about fish oils (omega-3 acids, in other words). Thoughts?
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  #282  
Old 02-08-10, 08:55 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Quote:
I am very skeptical about the power of - both soduku (am I the only person in the world that has never done one?)
The idea of numbers terrified me, thinking it had to do with adding or something..but it is more or less a puzzle...anyway I have moments of doing nothing at work and I thought I would try it.

I hate concentrating. I think you mentioned it hurting

I literally would get so mentally tired I could fall asleep after 5 min. It took a while for the mental sluggishness and desire to lay down on the floor to vanish.

That somewhere between 2-4 pm where you can get soooo tired you practically have to keep your eyes pried open and then it just passes?
Thats what it felt like within minutes of doing soduku.

ANYWAY...over a period of a couple of weeks...It seemed like my brain got stronger...I could do the puzzle for long stretches and not get that mental fatigue.
It hasn't cured me in any way I thinkm but i think it is interesting.

I thought easy mental fatigue was concrete and couldn't be changed, except with meds...

Well of course I have forgotten all about soduku and drifted off into doing something else...I think I will start doing it again and monitor myself in other situations...

I love this whole thread...trying to find where I fit in...does wellbutrin help many here? i am at the max dosage but I am still not close to feeling caught up with everyone else...
I have tried a couple stimulants....I definelty felt sped up...almost like being pushed with a blank stare on my face...i seemed to be sent into a zoned out space of buzzyiness... I was soo hoping for the magic concentration I heard ritalin and the such would do...
the wellbutrin gives me "drive". like if I forgot to turn off the basement light...i would just do it. Not feel like...oh god I have to go all the way down and turn it off...you can imagine what my house looks like...
What vexes ,me is if I forget to take it a few days...the wellbutrin feels all new and gives me a good zap like the first time i took it...Those first few days of taking it i almost really feel "normal". I know they say it should take time, but i can feel wellbutrin within a day....

Last edited by sarek; 02-09-10 at 04:15 AM.. Reason: fixed quote tags
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  #283  
Old 02-09-10, 01:55 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

I fit the SCT profile to a tee and I have tried many drug combos with moderate success

stimulants for the most make me too anxious and sped up...They do help in terms of concentration...but I still bounce around from task to task without any organizational pattern. With that being said I still can work better with adderall/ritalin than without it.

Wellbutrin also seemed to work well, especially in terms of energy.

The doctor that everyone keeps talking about... Russel Barkley...is the only one that I have ever heard about to discuss ADHD-PI SCT specifically in detail. He said something about how stimulants might not be the right choice for this subgroup. He mentions something about how strattera might be a possible alternative.

His video is on youtube its like an hour long and about 1/3 the way through I think he talks about it...
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  #284  
Old 02-09-10, 04:05 AM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

Do those with SCT ever have bursts of mental energy where they work really fast? or is SCT always slow in every aspect including speech, movement regardless of hyperfocus?
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Old 02-09-10, 05:12 PM
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Re: Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

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Originally Posted by Technojunkie View Post
canislupus: try Adderall (mixed amphetamine salts) instead of Ritalin, as others recommended. You sound like you're ADHD-I like me. Exercise helps as you noticed (sports), anything that gets your heart rate up for 30-45 minutes, biking being my favorite choice. Remove artificials and most refined sugar from your diet. I'm able to get away with a lower dose of Adderall than most, just 20mg once per day instead of 30mg twice per day, so long as I get my cardio workouts. Hopefully I won't have to raise that later.

I think there's a lot to the theory that ADHD is (usually?) caused by an immune system disorder, as discussed in other threads. 60-70% of your immune system is in your gut, thus why dietary cleanup helps.

I think everyone should get their diet and exercise habits fixed before trying drugs, both because I suspect that there are a lot of borderline cases that don't need meds and because you won't need as high of a dose if lifestyle changes prove inadequate. Getting the "noise" caused by petrochemicals (artificial coloring, flavoring and preservatives) out of your system is critical. It also makes your request for meds more credible since at that point you've tried just about everything else.

I've found that fast-twitch video games are much less interesting these days. I suspect you'll find the same once you find a treatment regimin that works.

I know it's an old post but I have the feeling you're the closest one to a workable solution for me.
I, somehow, know that I need and should do the following to regain control of my life or at least reduce the negative effects of ADD or whatever label you want to stick on this s****y problem I'm/we're facing:

- exercise at least 45 min 3 to 5 times a week
- proper diet, less sugar no additive
- enough sleeping time, ideally go to bed before 11PM

I'm in the process of giving a try to Adderall if possible. My question is:
With this treatment (stimulants+sport+diet), did you get your "functioning brain" back ie. are you able to read, understand concepts and use your working memory as you you use to do?
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