Sluggish Cognitive Tempo (SCT)

[JimiTheFox]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

To dumb this down: This area of the brain does not CAUSE stress, but it is activated during stress. THIS is the starting point for the release of norepinephrine and adrenaline.

Most of us SCTers feel very little stress... And we think slowly. Coincidence? I don't think so.

There is a supplement called Pyritinol that stimulates this area of the brain. I take it every day. Literally, it makes me think faster. Pyritinol, combined with amphetamines (which indirectly act on the LC) is THE best cure I have found for sluggishness and motivation difficulties.

I am certain it is much more complicated than this, but I DO believe that there is a problem with THIS area of the brain in us SCTers. Because anything that stimulates this area of the brain makes me think faster.

So.... slowly but surely.... we're getting closer....

I am literally insensible to stress: actually the more stressful the situation the more alert I am and the more I perform.
This, as you can imagine, can generate an interesting life...

You've made an interesting point linking stress and norepinephrine release.
What is your dosage of Pyritinol and where can we get it?

[JimiTheFox]

Originally Posted by Luthien

that is very common for all inattentives. It's called "hitting the wall": and it happens at a given time depending on the seriousness of the attention problems and your intelligence.

If you're reasonably smart you can sort of "freewheel" through the lower grades so that you do not need to pay attention or process input at an adequate speed. You'll absorb the knowledge through osmosis (anyway, that is how it feels to me).
But when the complexity of the subject matter increases, you will have to listen to the teacher / read your books, and then the trouble begins.

OMG!!!!!
I was searching for an explanation to why/when/what did the shift happen for me?
What went wrong, what was the turning point where suddenly things stopped being so easy...?
I am definitely not alone.
Thanks Luthien, I almost choose Beren as a login name, reminds me so many good things.

[dude102]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

To dumb this down: This area of the brain does not CAUSE stress, but it is activated during stress. THIS is the starting point for the release of norepinephrine and adrenaline.

Most of us SCTers feel very little stress... And we think slowly. Coincidence? I don't think so.

There is a supplement called Pyritinol that stimulates this area of the brain. I take it every day. Literally, it makes me think faster. Pyritinol, combined with amphetamines (which indirectly act on the LC) is THE best cure I have found for sluggishness and motivation difficulties.

I am certain it is much more complicated than this, but I DO believe that there is a problem with THIS area of the brain in us SCTers. Because anything that stimulates this area of the brain makes me think faster.

So.... slowly but surely.... we're getting closer....

I think slowly and I have a ****load of stress.. could this still be SCT? I have insane anxiety.

[d3xter404]

Originally Posted by JimiTheFox

I know it's an old post but I have the feeling you're the closest one to a workable solution for me.
I, somehow, know that I need and should do the following to regain control of my life or at least reduce the negative effects of ADD or whatever label you want to stick on this s****y problem I'm/we're facing:

- exercise at least 45 min 3 to 5 times a week
- proper diet, less sugar no additive
- enough sleeping time, ideally go to bed before 11PM

I'm in the process of giving a try to Adderall if possible. My question is:
With this treatment (stimulants+sport+diet), did you get your "functioning brain" back ie. are you able to read, understand concepts and use your working memory as you you use to do?

I'm not jimithefox, but I'll chime in... diet might help and exercise definately does (for me). My wife and I have changed our diets to be 90% 'organic', home-cooked, healthy meals. I've cut out most sodas, sugary drinks and junk food. This all lead to 15 - 20 lbs of weight loss, which alone is a good thing. I think eating healthier foods with more complex sugars does help cognition mildly, but it isn't a miracle cure that negates the need for medication (in my experience, and probably most everyone else's as well).

Cardio-vascular exercise has also seemed to be very beneficial. Although it's hard to go jogging 5 miles, when I already find it difficult to get up and just clean the kitchen (although getting out of cleaning the kitchen might be just enough motivation to go jogging ) There's a book called 'spark' that discusses neurological disorders and the impact exercise has on them. You can boil 90% of the books content down to: "aerobic exercise causes the release of BDNF, which builds new neurons and neuronal connections". I do feel better when I've been exercising regularly. I go from the "what did you say, I wasn't listening" feeling to the "I heard you, understood most of it, and I'm on the brink of an epiphany that I just can't quite grasp". I'd love to get to "grasping the epiphany and understanding stuff" level, but I haven't gotten there yet.

---------------------------------------------
On another note, I posted about provigil / modafinil a few months back. I've gone to see a psychiatrist who isn't a pharmacy vending machine and actually had some discussion with me. He wasn't familiar with the SCT concept, but I sent him the barkley slides and Adele Diamond dysexecutive syndrome article. Hopefully he'll chime in with an opinion.

He also prescribed provigil to try out as well as recommend getting a battery of neurological tests performed. I bought 1 weeks worth of provigil ($130, since insurance laughed and said 'hell no'). So far I've been very disappointed. I don't feel any effect at all. My speech goes back to tongue tied and un-fluid. I can't think clearly and my energy/motivation is only slightly above un-medicated. I'm pretty sure I could take one and go take a nap. (to be fair, I sometimes feel I could take a nap after 40mg of Adderall XR). I've been taking 100mg so far, but I upped it to 200mg and a 20mg adderall this past weekend, without much better results. I read something a while back about 300-400 mg being the typical range for treating ADHD.

Anyone who has had a good (or bad) experience with provigil for SCT, please write back and let me know the dosage you're taking and your experience.

For now I'll follow up on the thyroid blood-work I was supposed to do 2 months ago and see if I have a hypothyroid problem. I might also ask if having my testosterone level checked is worth while (although I think that is less likely the problem or only a contributing factor). (anyone had their testosterone levels checked/adjusted?)

[squarerootof2]

I just heard about ADHD-I/SCT a few weeks ago and it totally described me.
For the last two years I have been studying Social Anxiety Disorder, Depression and OCD, thinking that I had one or all of them. But none of them seemed to describe me completely and it was frustrating because I felt like I was the only one in the world with my symptoms. Anyway, I am so relieved to have found out what i have and to know that I am not alone.

[dude102]

Originally Posted by d3xter404

I'm not jimithefox, but I'll chime in... diet might help and exercise definately does (for me). My wife and I have changed our diets to be 90% 'organic', home-cooked, healthy meals. I've cut out most sodas, sugary drinks and junk food. This all lead to 15 - 20 lbs of weight loss, which alone is a good thing. I think eating healthier foods with more complex sugars does help cognition mildly, but it isn't a miracle cure that negates the need for medication (in my experience, and probably most everyone else's as well).

Cardio-vascular exercise has also seemed to be very beneficial. Although it's hard to go jogging 5 miles, when I already find it difficult to get up and just clean the kitchen (although getting out of cleaning the kitchen might be just enough motivation to go jogging ) There's a book called 'spark' that discusses neurological disorders and the impact exercise has on them. You can boil 90% of the books content down to: "aerobic exercise causes the release of BDNF, which builds new neurons and neuronal connections". I do feel better when I've been exercising regularly. I go from the "what did you say, I wasn't listening" feeling to the "I heard you, understood most of it, and I'm on the brink of an epiphany that I just can't quite grasp". I'd love to get to "grasping the epiphany and understanding stuff" level, but I haven't gotten there yet.

---------------------------------------------
On another note, I posted about provigil / modafinil a few months back. I've gone to see a psychiatrist who isn't a pharmacy vending machine and actually had some discussion with me. He wasn't familiar with the SCT concept, but I sent him the barkley slides and Adele Diamond dysexecutive syndrome article. Hopefully he'll chime in with an opinion.

He also prescribed provigil to try out as well as recommend getting a battery of neurological tests performed. I bought 1 weeks worth of provigil ($130, since insurance laughed and said 'hell no'). So far I've been very disappointed. I don't feel any effect at all. My speech goes back to tongue tied and un-fluid. I can't think clearly and my energy/motivation is only slightly above un-medicated. I'm pretty sure I could take one and go take a nap. (to be fair, I sometimes feel I could take a nap after 40mg of Adderall XR). I've been taking 100mg so far, but I upped it to 200mg and a 20mg adderall this past weekend, without much better results. I read something a while back about 300-400 mg being the typical range for treating ADHD.

Anyone who has had a good (or bad) experience with provigil for SCT, please write back and let me know the dosage you're taking and your experience.

For now I'll follow up on the thyroid blood-work I was supposed to do 2 months ago and see if I have a hypothyroid problem. I might also ask if having my testosterone level checked is worth while (although I think that is less likely the problem or only a contributing factor). (anyone had their testosterone levels checked/adjusted?)

I had my t4 and t3 levels checked and it was on the low range but still "normal". The second time I checked it, the levels were much more normal so you should get it checked twice.

[d3xter404]

Originally Posted by dude102

One of my thyroids is slightly below normal, but the other two are normal. The doctors said I was fine... so you think this would make a difference?

Luthien/Dude102,

I was doing some reading on stopthetyroidmadness.com and came across some interesting information that might be useful for you two.

#1: It turns out the typical diagnosis test for hypothyroidism gives the TSH value. The Thyroid stimulating hormone is actually released from the pituitary gland and calls for the thyroid to release more of the T4 and T3 hormones. Because the TSH is just a signaling mechanism, it can't detect secondary causes of hypothyroidism.

#2: The official 'normal' range for the TSH value may be wider than it reasonably should be. At one point .5-10 was accepted. Now it's .5-5, although the website i mentioned said .5-2 might be the most realistic. And most seemed to feel the best around 1-1.5.

#3: The typical drugs prescribed are synthetic thyroid hormones (levo-something) that are equivalent to T4. Apparently this is able to help a fair percentage of patients, but almost all patients seem to do better on the natural thyroid extracts. Apparently the conversion of T4 to T3 (the active thyroid hormone) sometimes doesn't work well for whatever reason. So if they provide the T4 only drug, your TSH will come down, your T4 level will be normal and all your blood tests will look perfect. But because your body isn't transforming the T4 (storage type) to T3, your body is still effectively lacking the thyroid hormones it needs.

Also, I saw a few mentions that the Free T4/T3 values are what is important to watch.

#4: Have you taken your temperature lately? I've also read that body temperature is nearly as accurate for detecting a hypo/hyper thyroid as the TSH. Granted, other things can certainly cause your body temp to change too. But if you have hypo-thyroid symptoms and a low body temp, there's a good chance you hypothyroidism - even despite ongoing drug treatments. (I took my temp yesterday and it was 96F, but I've also been feeling sick lately.)

I'd be interested in hearing how this applies to both of you. I just had my blood drawn this morning to have the TSH test performed. Hopefully it comes back really screwed up some I know what's wrong with me.

[Ian_B]

Originally Posted by Luthien

that is very common for all inattentives. It's called "hitting the wall": and it happens at a given time depending on the seriousness of the attention problems and your intelligence.

If you're reasonably smart you can sort of "freewheel" through the lower grades so that you do not need to pay attention or process input at an adequate speed. You'll absorb the knowledge through osmosis (anyway, that is how it feels to me).
But when the complexity of the subject matter increases, you will have to listen to the teacher / read your books, and then the trouble begins.

I haven't heard the term before, but I think it fits me pretty well. I was able to do well atschool, even through law school, but have not been able to transition from school to work.

So I've decided to go back to school.

[Jag78]

Hi

I have only just joined ADD Forums.

I see myself 100% in the Wikipedia definition of SCT. Finding out about SCT was a revelation and has been a massive relief. In common with someone else earlier on in this thread (sorry, can't remember who), I had previously felt isolated, like an outsider even within the context of ADD, and was frankly despairing.

Finding this thread has felt like coming home!.

I have previously tried the Dore programme. This improved my attention and consequently improved my social skills, but did not touch my executive function difficulties.

I'm due to start neurofeedback treatment shortly. Has anyone tried this and if so, what if any benefits did you get from it?.

[dude102]

Originally Posted by Jag78

Hi

I have only just joined ADD Forums.

I see myself 100% in the Wikipedia definition of SCT. Finding out about SCT was a revelation and has been a massive relief. In common with someone else earlier on in this thread (sorry, can't remember who), I had previously felt isolated, like an outsider even within the context of ADD, and was frankly despairing.

Finding this thread has felt like coming home!.

I have previously tried the Dore programme. This improved my attention and consequently improved my social skills, but did not touch my executive function difficulties.

I'm due to start neurofeedback treatment shortly. Has anyone tried this and if so, what if any benefits did you get from it?.

Did you ever try med?

[willinabox]

Ive just started strattera for SCT...anyone ever tried/had any thoughts?....ive tried everything else with limited results

[EshkaronsEngine]

Originally Posted by willinabox

Ive just started strattera for SCT...anyone ever tried/had any thoughts?....ive tried everything else with limited results

Hey I can't say I know for sure I have SCT or not but I am taking Strattera right now and it doesn't respond like it had before. So I would just like to caution, that if you find it does help out quite a bit to not stop it unless you have too.

I stopped because of cost and side-effects and tried something else and was off Strattera for a year. Now that I'm back on it it works very well as an anti-depressant for me but not very well as an ADD med anymore.

[d3xter404]

I have google alerts setup for Sluggish Cognitive Tempo and it notified me of a few developments today.

Abstract on 'formal' SCT symptoms
http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/cus...accno=EJ859916

Article about the new DSM which mentions SCT
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...sts-Bible.html


Incidently... I got my thyroid test results back. My TSH was .94, so it was fine (they didn't test the T4 or T3). But I was severely deficient in Vitamin D and put onto a prescription strength dose for 8 weeks. I took the first dose about 3 days ago, and I already feel so much better. Right now I feel as awake (if not slightly more) than I do after 40mg of Adderall XR. This isn't to say I'm 'cured' since I've been SCTish my whole life, but I don't think I've felt this good in several years. Hopefully the trend will continue and get only better.

[willinabox]

Treatment.....

[shamu321]

I'm sure this has been asked before...but what treatments do you use to cope with your SCT? For myself, I think exercise and getting around 8 hours of sleep every night are really important. I am also considering getting medicated. What has worked well for you? I am new to this forum and this is my first post.