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  #61  
Old 10-19-12, 08:14 AM
Slybfoxx Slybfoxx is offline
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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Originally Posted by meadd823 View Post
I think dismissing some one because you do not think they have ADHD is especially inappropriate seeing as we are in the parental section and many of the parents here looking for support may not be ADHD themselves.

One does not have to be in a motor vehicle accident to know what one is when they see it - An ER doc does not need to have first hand information of what it is like to be in a crash to be capable of sewing the victims of one back together.

I find multiple perceptions presented in civilized respectful manner to the most productive for all concerned. Reading the various exchanges allows those following this discussion to see the topic from a variety of perceptions and come to their own conclusions.



I am NOT a Barkley fan and make no secret of it but I can extend a bit of courtesy to those who are and respect their contributions even if I disagree with them.

The thing I have yet to understand about any of these natural versus pharmaceutical treatments is the all or nothing approach that I find so common.

Few of us if any know the children's whose condition is being discussed, never mind know as much about them as their own parents I find it presumptuous when people pretend they do.

If a parent wants to try diet therapy or even neurofeedback for their child and they have the resources to do so no reason they shouldn't if that is what they feel to be in the best interest of their child.

If parents find that medication to be the best option then there is no reason why they shouldn't be supported for their decision.




Please do realize medical research is about treatment results as they apply to the whole population of ADDers - There are always exceptions to the rule. Most find ADHD medication beneficial but not every one will, some find special diets beneficial but not every one will -

Mileage may vary no matter which treatment is being used. So far no one has corned the market on the single unshakeable universal truth. I find it presumptuous when folks pretend they have.
Oh no! Not my intent at all as clearly there must be some ADHD there. And to be fair, I for some reason read Barkley's 2010 book, the whole damn thing last night, along with the paper cited by the gentleman I was talking to. The internet is a tough medium sometimes, to me, he sounded condenscending, but if I sounded the same I apologize....and Barkeley does has some good points in his book, just that his book makes you feel like your ADHD is a real crippler.....it is sometimes for me at least, but damn if I am going to let it be an excuse. I'm not the "aw shucks guys it's my ADHD" guy....it's more like "why can't you keep up with my thoughts?" The self esteem issues of a ADHD'er, like me at least, aren't exactly helped by reading about exactly how
bad our chemistry/malfunctions are...
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  #62  
Old 10-19-12, 09:24 AM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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Originally Posted by Meadd823
The thing I have yet to understand about any of these natural versus pharmaceutical treatments is the all or nothing approach that I find so common.
'xactly...

I fully support a parent's choice to medicate (or not); I'm also a supporter of dietary & supplemental approaches as an adjunct (I'm talking about what my approach is with my son)

Do these adjuncts 'treat' ADHD? Probably not, if you believe the science, but in some kids they may mitigate hyperactivity and have a positive influence on the child's overall health. If the end result is a calmer, healthier, more productive child, that is a good thing...
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  #63  
Old 10-19-12, 03:20 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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Originally Posted by Slybfoxx View Post
Kindly look at my previous post. Have you tried any of the more healthy or natural approaches such as the ones written about in this thread? Were you ever on the Feingold diet? Who would be the best judge of whether or not that diet worked on a child...or not then their parents? Please be much more clear about the current work being done on ADHD, because in another post you basically said you knew little about neurofeedback- but suddenly- in this thread you are all for it. It sounds like you are a big Barkley fan, why exactly?

I think getting advice on ADD/ADHD from someone who doesn't have it is like getting advice on marriage from a lifelong bachelor. I'd rather take flying lessons from a pilot then a guy under the hood fixing engines.
I do not understand your objections. It is not necessary for one to have a disorder to be able to study it. Should researchers studying the causes and treatment for blindness deliberately destroy their sight to fit your criteria? Should practitioners treating deafness puncture their ear drums? You are not making a lot of sense here.

What science does is take the results of many trials and puts them together to try to see the whole picture. I am sorry but our individual experiences have little value in scientific studies. We both are a sample of one.

I am sad that you feel this way because you will miss out on a lot of good evidence on the disorder but I have done a bit more than a tad of reading and study on ADHD and I suspect you haven't.

So should I seriously consider the opinions and findings of people who have been studying this their whole lives but who may not be ADHD themselves or should I just take your word for it because you are ADHD?

You brought up the example of flying lessons from a pilot or a mechanic. In this case, Barkley is the pilot so to speak and on the subject of ADHD perhaps one of the best in the world. You seem to be the mechanic in this scenario.

So who should I listen to by your lights, Barkley and the other researchers in the field or you?

Just to address your implied question, I am not ADHD but I raised a son who was. I post here as a parent who has done a bit of reading on the subject and has worked with the ADHD population.

Dizfriz
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  #64  
Old 10-19-12, 10:11 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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Originally Posted by Dizfriz View Post
I do not understand your objections. It is not necessary for one to have a disorder to be able to study it. Should researchers studying the causes and treatment for blindness deliberately destroy their sight to fit your criteria? Should practitioners treating deafness puncture their ear drums? You are not making a lot of sense here.

What science does is take the results of many trials and puts them together to try to see the whole picture. I am sorry but our individual experiences have little value in scientific studies. We both are a sample of one.

I am sad that you feel this way because you will miss out on a lot of good evidence on the disorder but I have done a bit more than a tad of reading and study on ADHD and I suspect you haven't.

So should I seriously consider the opinions and findings of people who have been studying this their whole lives but who may not be ADHD themselves or should I just take your word for it because you are ADHD?

You brought up the example of flying lessons from a pilot or a mechanic. In this case, Barkley is the pilot so to speak and on the subject of ADHD perhaps one of the best in the world. You seem to be the mechanic in this scenario.

So who should I listen to by your lights, Barkley and the other researchers in the field or you?

Just to address your implied question, I am not ADHD but I raised a son who was. I post here as a parent who has done a bit of reading on the subject and has worked with the ADHD population.

Dizfriz
Well, that's it. That is why you come across in the forum like a Barkley-ite in a way....but come on my good man, telling this mother that she doesn't know her child intuitively and dismissing her out of hand is what what prompted my post.

Barkley's latest book was just 2 feet from my bedside last night on my nightstand, ironically, and Iactually read the entire book again, I was up until 4...

It is in a stack of adhd/add books by my bed, and I have a mini library on the subject. I have also been a patient and was one of the original Ritalin kids in the 70's. I'm in the game.

The worst possible moment for me was my parents telling me I had to go see a Doctor, I remember it well and I was very young. I think they were embarrased to tell me, I remember it being an awkward moment and a really bad day for me. Being told you have a problem is troubling, still is to me. I NEVER THOUGHT I HAD A PROBLEM AND IF I DIDN"T HAVE PEOPLE LABELING ME THEN TO NOW I PROBABLY WOULD STILL FEEL THE SAME WAY.


But you see, the science at the time said we would grow out of ADD. That was coming out of Barkley's mouth also. Guess what? They were wrong most of the time. They were wrong about alot of issues. So when someone who doesn't even have ADHD gets the "know it all" approach on the forum I think they should be called out. The problem I have with Barkley is really revealed in the "Add is not a gift" theory, his "accept/own your disorder". In my world I think others are sometimes slow thinking, boring, half dead and....espousing opionions on boards instead of being a solution, pointing fingers at people with solutions as being non-scientific....someone's got to call you out on it, just because you have read about ADD and have a bunch of posts,your kind of bullyish with other posters when they have other opinions which don't agree with...Barkley?

BTW, in his book his facts are pretty dismal and reading them as someone with ADHD it is kind a affirmation of failure of sorts. I'm not sure that's constructive deep down for some. I told a patient today about Barkley's thought that someone shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car unless they had meds in their bloodstream. She was shocked. She wants to get her child off of the meds. Most sensible parents do in my opinion. Guess what, if that mother gets results by using a natural approach/diet changes, are you going to come to her and say she's just being emotional and that there is no science behind her thoughts? Too much, your getting too much Barkley in your dogma because you CAN do great things with ADHD, ADHD can be a gift and science can be wrong.

Thanks for your input time to get under the hood I have to repair myself!

Last edited by Slybfoxx; 10-19-12 at 10:31 PM..
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  #65  
Old 10-19-12, 10:57 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

Dude, who made you King of the Forums? Are you really going to tell people where they can and cannot post? There is no requirement for someone to have ADHD to join here and, in any case, this section of the forums is for parents of ADHD children. I don't have ADHD, my son does. Are you presuming to tell me that can't post here and offer advice to to other parents?

Diz doesn't need me to defend him, but if I'm not mistaken (and he'll correct me if I'm wrong) he is a retired psychologist who raised an ADHD child and counseled ADHD children and their parents. As far as I'm concerned, he's plenty qualified to comment here.

You have done nothing but antagonize people. You need to follow the three jerk rule. Perhaps you're familiar with it--it you meet three jerks in one day maybe it's not them, maybe it's you.

And now that that is taken care of I'd like to encourage everyone to stay on topic.
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  #66  
Old 10-20-12, 02:32 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slybfoxx View Post
Well, that's it. That is why you come across in the forum like a Barkley-ite in a way....but come on my good man, telling this mother that she doesn't know her child intuitively and dismissing her out of hand is what what prompted my post.
I am a little lost on this. Where did I tell a mother that she didn't know her child intuitively and especially where did I dismiss her out of hand? A point to the post would be helpful. This is a long and mostly old thread and perhaps I missed it


Quote:
Barkley's latest book was just 2 feet from my bedside last night on my nightstand, ironically, and Iactually read the entire book again, I was up until 4...
Which one is that? I understand his book on executive functions is his latest (May 2012). I am working my way through it. Like all of Barkley's writings, he is information dense and it takes time to absorb what he is saying. If this is the book you are reading, what do you think of it?

Quote:
It is in a stack of adhd/add books by my bed, and I have a mini library on the subject. I have also been a patient and was one of the original Ritalin kids in the 70's. I'm in the game.
Ok

Quote:
The worst possible moment for me was my parents telling me I had to go see a Doctor, I remember it well and I was very young. I think they were embarrased to tell me, I remember it being an awkward moment and a really bad day for me. Being told you have a problem is troubling, still is to me. I NEVER THOUGHT I HAD A PROBLEM AND IF I DIDN"T HAVE PEOPLE LABELING ME THEN TO NOW I PROBABLY WOULD STILL FEEL THE SAME WAY.
If you feel that way, you may not be ADHD. You might consider rechecking the diagnosis.


Quote:
But you see, the science at the time said we would grow out of ADD. That was coming out of Barkley's mouth also.
When did Barkley say this?
Quote:
Guess what? They were wrong most of the time. They were wrong about alot of issues. So when someone who doesn't even have ADHD gets the "know it all" approach on the forum I think they should be called out. The problem I have with Barkley is really revealed in the "Add is not a gift" theory, his "accept/own your disorder"
That is his thinking and he has presented some good evidence to back this up. No one says you have to agree but so far I have not seen anyone present evidence showing ADHDers being able to do something non ADHDers cannot. That would be my idea of a gift. Others will disagree and that's OK.

And you are more than welcome to call me out so to speak. It is my job to support what I say and so I feel that being challenged is more than appropriate if someone doesn't agree with what I write.

Quote:
In my world I think others are sometimes slow thinking, boring, half dead and....espousing opionions on boards instead of being a solution, pointing fingers at people with solutions as being non-scientific....someone's got to call you out on it, just because you have read about ADD and have a bunch of posts,your kind of bullyish with other posters when they have other opinions which don't agree with...Barkley?
OK lets tackle this a little.

First, the reason that I tend to follow Barkley's theory on ADHD is that the evidence, at least so far, is strongly supporting his theories. Barkley's impact in the field is very significant. He developed the theory of ADHD being an issue of executive functions (which generally is the consensus theory being used in research on the disorder). He well may have personally produced more published research on ADHD than anyone else and his knowledge of ADHD is encyclopedic.

No one has to agree with him and at times I don't but to understand ADHD as it is currently viewed,you have to know what he is saying.

Now to my bullying. I do hold people to being able to back up what they say with facts. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan famously said “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” I pretty much to operate in that mode. You are welcome to your opinion but your facts can be open to challenge as are mine.

If you consider that bullying, so be it. I just feel that one of the best tools for dealing with ADHD is a good working knowledge of accurate science based facts on ADHD. The only time, generally, that I challenge someone's opinion is when the posters insist their opinions and personal experience should apply to everyone else.

It would be helpful if you could show me where I was engaging in "bullyish" behavior. I cannot really address it unless I can see some examples of what you are describing.

Quote:
BTW, in his book his facts are pretty dismal
Are we reading the same books? I find his books to be very information dense. Try looking at the book Attention -Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Third edition Barkley (2006) as an example. You can view much of it on Amazon.
Quote:
and reading them as someone with ADHD it is kind a affirmation of failure of sorts. I'm not sure that's constructive deep down for some.
Ok you disagree with Barkley and that is fine.
Quote:
I told a patient today about Barkley's thought that someone shouldn't be behind the wheel of a car unless they had meds in their bloodstream.
And he has a lot of statistics backing this up.
Quote:
She was shocked. She wants to get her child off of the meds. Most sensible parents do in my opinion.
Nothing wrong with that. I do not know of any professional that likes mediating children but often the consequences of not medicating turn out to be far worse than those of medicating. This is particularly so in driving with untreated ADHD. Check the stats.
Quote:
Guess what, if that mother gets results by using a natural approach/diet changes, are you going to come to her and say she's just being emotional and that there is no science behind her thoughts?
Nope, my feeling is that whatever works works and sometimes changing diet can have an impact. If it works, more power to her.
Quote:
Too much, your getting too much Barkley in your dogma because you CAN do great things with ADHD, ADHD can be a gift and science can be wrong.
Of course you can do great things and be ADHD. This is well known and clearly demonstrated.. However if you want to propose that ADHD can be a gift and the science on that is wrong, you need to present facts backing your opinion. As much as I would like to see ADHD result in benefits, I haven't seen any so far that can be demonstrated. I might ask again, what abilities does ADHD give that is not present in the general population?

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Thanks for your input time to get under the hood I have to repair myself!
Don't we all.

Dizfriz
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  #67  
Old 10-20-12, 03:58 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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In my world I think others are sometimes slow thinking, boring, half dead and....espousing opionions on boards instead of being a solution, pointing fingers at people with solutions as being non-scientific....someone's got to call you out on it, just because you have read about ADD and have a bunch of posts,your kind of bullyish with other posters when they have other opinions which don't agree with...Barkley?
When you see others in such a way, as "slow thinking, boring, half dead.. Etc" how can you possibly have any respect even enough to bother to listen to anything they have to say? Your low opinion says more about you than it does about others. I feel sorry for you if this is your world. I'm not being unkind, I sincerely think when you start to dehumanize those who disagree with you, it's time to take a step back because opinions even those we're invested in do not trump the basic worth and dignity others deserve.


I'm one of the sixties kids who would grow out of adhd but didn't, I felt different from others my whole life, I knew there was something wrong. My experience is not the least unique, most people with adhd have felt different.

I think even putting aside Barkley, I watch as those who propose diet first, listen to my intuitive experience and consider it as just as valid as science, completely ignore all the parents who did try the diets and supplements and who say they had no effect. These people are just as dismissed as science.

It leaves the impression that there is no discussion, that those who dismiss everyone who don't share their opinion are cultish zealots.
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  #68  
Old 10-20-12, 04:57 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

Someone who has formally studied psychology and worked for a lifetime professionally in the field gaining experience with hundreds of people has WAY more credibility than someone with one child and themselves, and has read some books.

You can't even compare the two equally.
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Old 10-30-12, 11:08 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

My eleven year old son was just diagnose with ADHD. I kind of suspected he had it for years. I knew I did not want to give him medication because I do not trust the pharmaceutical companies. I thought there should be another way to treat his symptoms naturally. I cam across this program that I got from this website that helped my son. It taught me what to do to make spelling words easier for him, to sit still and stop all that fidgeting, and to help him keep from zoning out when I'm talking to him. I gave his teacher a few of these tips too. As if she actually uses them. It had some more things in this program but I would be writing forever. It's called 100 Ways To Help Your Child Pay Attention. It had a questionnaire to see your child may have ADHD. It helped me. Maybe it can
help you. But please use medication as a last result. Please.

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Old 03-26-13, 03:59 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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Originally Posted by Zulu View Post
EEG Biofeedback

has anyone tried this - what are your experiences. Is it expensive?
Hi everyone, I'm a newbie here but I am using neurofeedback and yes it is expensive but we have already seen great success. We just decided that when we added up the costs of medication, therapists, coaches etc. it was worth the price. I also supplement with the omegas.
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Old 02-10-14, 12:03 AM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

http://archive.digtriad.com/news/loc...storyid=284904

The food dyes specifically seem to be logically avoided, what could their benefits be?
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Old 02-10-14, 02:03 AM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

Food dyes are bad for all children. Children with adhd are no different. No amount of removal of food dyes would cure adhd. Bye all means remove food dyes.
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Old 02-10-14, 09:59 AM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

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Originally Posted by Slybfoxx View Post
http://archive.digtriad.com/news/loc...storyid=284904

The food dyes specifically seem to be logically avoided, what could their benefits be?
The only benefits to food dyes are to the companies that use them in order to lure children into begging their parents to get them the colorful foods. The only benefits to artificial flavoring in food are also to the companies who buy the cheap chemicals to replace real ingredients and save money. The dyes, artificial flavors and certain preservatives are made from petro-chemicals (think motor oil). They are harmful to the brain and offer no nutritional value.

As another poster mentioned, eliminating them will not cure adhd, but for many, it will greatly help in controlling the symptoms (especially hyperactivity).
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Natural Alternatives are worth investigating. They can and do work for some people. Dietary intervention (especially the elimination of chemical additives such as artificial colors, artificial flavors, and certain preservatives) has been very effective in helping to control adhd symptoms in my child.


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Old 02-18-14, 04:51 PM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

Here is another article regarding neurofeedback and cognitive therapy. http://www.wwnytv.com/healthy/Tomorr...245964111.html
The study, done by Tufts, used the program we are using, play attention and it is working brilliantly for my little chap. But each to his/her own, just a bit of a knowledge snippet to share as research is being done in this area of brain training. Knowledge gives one empowerment. CHEERS
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Old 09-25-14, 11:22 AM
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Re: Controversial Treatments for Children With Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disord

It's good that this topic was raised here. It is a nice idea to give importance to a special case like ADHD. I've been seeing several kids with special cases and it would be better that we should also be aware on whats going on with them for us to understand and know how to deal with them.
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