Can Adderall FIX ADHD?

[Bob1951]

Of course not. Adderall is much like insulin - keeps us alive, going, but fixes nada.

But, but, but ...

Had a strange experience that suggests that stimulant meds can in fact "fix" ADHD.

I took no Adderall for the past week and performed as well as with it. What gives? Psychology is mind-numbing complex because we are all unique dudes or dudesses if you a female. Parenthetical thought (Freud said "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." That was his only mistake. Gender is ROOT of who we are.) Variables are murder. So happens that I program for a living. My current project is one bad momma cause there are so many variables and so few constants. I love constants. BUT in this assignment constants are a rare bred. Kind of like psychology.

But, but, but ...

One of my hero's is Albert Einstein. One of Al's quotes that I love is "God don't play dice." Damn, Al, you the man. There is rhyme and reason to everything at ROOT. Fact is, at ROOT everything is simple. The only exception is a lie. A lie is always complex. You know the saying, "oh, what a tangled web liars weave." Let me sneak in a little "off limits" stuff. Kind of like evolution. What BULL ****!

Now Speedo, take it easy. You college educated. I not. So you smart. I dumb. That is another piece of BULL ****! Actually Evolution is your religion. That's all. Can't be proven. Can't run a test and churn up a simple FREAKING one cell organism. What to know what? My problem for a non-college educated bozo is I just happen to know how FREAKING complex a lowly SIMPLE one cell organism is. Check out this quote: The Fifth Miracle, physicist Paul Davies states: "Each cell is packed with tiny structures that might have come straight from an engineer’s manual. Minuscule tweezers, scissors, pumps, motors, levers, valves, pipes, chains, and even vehicles abound. But of course the cell is more than just a bag of gadgets. The various components fit together to form a smoothly functioning whole, like an elaborate factory production line." Hmmmmm, an exceedingly rare accident?

Let me balance the scales for ol Speedo ...

if(3==1) trinity=true;

No wonder otherwise sane folks believe evolution.

Let's talk about college. I was suppose to go to college. It was Bob1951 parent's big dream. In grammar school the nuns said I was smart. Maybe I am, maybe not. But one thing is for sure I am ADHD. From the word go boys and girls ... I AM ADHD. Hell, the problem has become AND PROUD OF IT. Soooooo, instead of college, I became a card carrying hippie, dope shooting (meth, hmmmmm, why METH?) drug addict. That I am not proud of. Worse yet, it left me with HCV which in all probability will shorten my stay on the planet. Damn it. I love living.

I regret missing college. It is not the dough. I make a enough dough to keep everyone happy. It is the broad based knowledge base that I miss. Damn, every time I watch Jeopardy, I kick triple assteresk on science. But suck at everything else. There is so much more to know besides "Exchange Server." I am sick of these freaking non-personal computers. Who is Nova? All I know is that there is this beautiful soul with a mindboggling, astronomically high IQ. I'm talking Mensa class. Billy_Tell. I ain't hitting on your babe. It is just sooooooooooo gratifying for someone of that caliber to recognize little ol Bob1951 that I'm moved. Mead823 "she thinks I long lost relative cause I have no 'torque converter' between brain and mouth." Uminchu, hey his real name is Ryan. We have no children but ended raising two nephews - RYAN and Garth. Ryan rules. He's smart. Biz savvy. Good looking - a real babes man. Garth? He made more dough in real estate at age 26 than I did at age 54 with freaking technology. Damn him. There is this transference thingy. Everyone with the name Ryan has "position" in my eyes. Know what I mean?

OK, I'm getting there. At age 23, I found myself to be a COMPLETE LOSER. AND I made this very deep down resolution in my heart of hearts. NEVER AGAIN! I will never again FAIL. EVER!!!!!!!!!!!! Since then my mind-set has been either I'll die trying or I'll succeed. BUT I WILL NOT QUIT. NEVER AGAIN will I fail AT ANYTHING. Talk about synching up with Uminchu, "real name Ryan." The cat won't take ADHD dope because HE IS GOING TO PROVE TO THE WORLD he is not LAZY. U, I'm with you. However, you and I must realize NO ONE GIVES A DAMN. But I understand. I NOT GOING TO FAIL - EVER. And you are not going to display even a semblance of laziness. Cause you are not lazy. Anyone who continuously swaps textbooks in college to keep focused IS NOT LAZY. You are, however, like me. ADHD as HELL.

So here is what I brought to the table ... one of those psychological perpetuitous variables. I am going to beat this bad ******* or die trying. Guess whaaaaaaaaat? Well, too early to inflate my balloon. But it does seem as if I BEAT THIS BAD *******. One the of the highest complements paid me was my a biz partner, one of the few I trusted with my ADHD dxed, who said, "Bob, I know you won't take it sitting down." Damn. That was gratifying.

Oh, almost forgot, ballsy Tater. I admire your ballsyness, but I don't want to know about your beliefs. When you get to be 54 you'll discover that money doesn't buy happiness, but the shortage thereof sure buys MISERY. I know, I am a cynical 54 year old FART.

So how did Adderall XR presumably "FIX" my ADHD.

Well, it didn't.

Let me try to get the time frames correct. In 2003 I was trying for "cheaper" life insurance. I was rejected cause they said "I had the hepatitus C virus - the number one causitive of liver transplants in the US. Fam doc sent me to a liver guy who said, "sure enough, you got it - viral load 2megs+. better treat it or you're gonna croak sooner than you like." Well, the erudite doc probably didn't say "croak." Nevertheless, I figured he's an *** hole and went to another liver doc. Damn, he said the same thing. Treatment? Shoot pegylated interferon plus pop a couple of Ribavirins ever week and you will "probably" beat it since you got type 2 which responds the best.

The **** damn near killed me. Not the HCV, the damn CURE damn near killed me.

Check out the side effects:

"Side effects cause many people to stop HCV treatment. Side effects may be more severe for people co-infected with HIV and HCV. Before starting treatment, talk to people who have been through it, educate yourself, and make sure you ask family and friends for support. Flu-like symptoms such as fever, chills, headache, muscle ache, and fatigue are common side effects of treatment. Other symptoms are fatigue or extreme tiredness. Nausea and loss of appetite are also common. The flu-like symptoms are usually the worst right after taking the weekly injection; some people schedule their injection for a time each week when they know they'll be able to rest and take it easy afterwards. Some of these symptoms can be reduced by taking pain relief drugs an hour or two before each injection. Drinking lots of water is necessary.

Depression and related symptoms, such as anxiety, irritability, insomnia, and mental confusion, are common during treatment. This is especially true in people with a history of depression. People may also experience mental confusion, and difficulty with concentration and memory. While less common, other psychiatric side effects include aggressive behavior, psychosis, hallucinations, and mania; a few cases of suicide have been reported. People considering HCV treatment should receive a psychiatric evaluation before starting, and be closely monitored during treatment. Some doctors prescribe an antidepressant before starting treatment to prevent depression. If depression occurs during treatment, options include antidepressants, reducing the dose of pegylated interferon, or discontinuing treatment."

I swear I got em all. But talk about SEVERE ADD. I COULD NOT FUNCTION. I am talking, if you can imagine, not able to pick up the phone and call a client. TOO COMPLICATED. Bottom line: I sold my biz. Then lost all the dough from the transaction and when everything was said and done was down 100K+ and, trust me, at 53, losing 100K IS NOT A TRIVIAL MATTER.

Well, six months of shooting **** seemed like forever but it did come to an end. Now, though, little ol Bob1951's (October 10 - if you are interested) life was in shambles. NO INCOME. Line of credit going up at 3K EVERY MONTH. If you are a guy, have you ever been in a NO WORK situation? Truly, the only thing WORSE than work is NO WORK.

Liver guy started to suspect ADHD. Said try Rit. I said, "what are you nuts, been there, done that, AIN'T getting readdicted to 'meth'. And I held out for the better part of a year. Line of credit going up at 3K/month. No work in sight cause I can't function. Said, "I want SPEED and I WANT IT NOW!" Fam doc gave me two pathetic 10mg Rits/day. I upped it to 6 and told him. He freaked. Told him he was an *** hole and you are FIRED. Went to a shrink. He sucked. Went to another shrink. He ruled. Uppped the Rit to 80 then switched me to Adderall XR.

The moral of the story (ok, so I'm not a nut case of few words, so what?, neither are you), I was OVERWHELMED by a seemingly impossible situation. But with the Adderall XR, slowly but surely was able to rebuild life.

Just a short week ago, I said to wife, the **** doesn't seem to be working. She's religious and corrected "****" to Adderall. However, she quered me as to how "IT" isn't (less the 'SH') working?" Well, I said, it doesn't seem to make any difference. I do well with or without it. So, boys and girls, hopefully not to my disappointment, it seems as if the Adderall XR has ....

1. Got me beyond that "overwhelmed" state.
2. Has enabled me to develope skills that I should have developed back in the 60's - instead of shooting speed - such as planning and organizaitional skills that have enabled me to function pretty well in spite of ADHD.

I've not read a similar experience except from that couple that has a jazz musician son "Bry." That couple said that the stimulants have helped them learn skills AND that after learning said skills the "dope" was no longer necessary.

What say you?

Bob

PS I am laughing that any of my ADHD friends on this board have lasted till "What say you?" No response and I'll shorten it

[FightingBoredom]

First, the fact that you posted such an amazingly long post tells me that you still need the Adderall. BUT

I can tell you how you got where you are and how you think you don't need it.

On it you were able to get it together enough to build some skills and habits that make your life work better. Once you stop taking it you still have those skills but it may not take long for those skills to get lost in the world of synapse misfires and put you right back where you were. And you'll be starting a step behind where you were before you took Adderall.

I know this because I did the same thing with Ritalin. I thought I didn't need it after 18 months. I found out the hard way that my percpetion was whacked about what I could do when I was off the meds.

One common symptom of ADDers is a warped perception of self. If you really want to test this have your wife keep a diary of your behavior for a month of being on the meds. Then stop taking them for a month and have her keep going with the diary.

You won't like what she writes about you in the second month and you'll wish you could have seen it at the time it was happening so you could do something about it.

My advice: stay on the meds or find meds that work better for you.

It's your life--if you want to learn it the hard way through trial and error--go for it. Just don't expect it to be a fun ride.

[Bob1951]

Fightingbordom,

I hope you are wrong but am open minded enough to concede if not. I'll let you know. Either way, good stuff.

Bob

[Matt S.]

my doctor is one of those anti-day off doctors with the dexedrine because being hyperactive makes the rush that the "inattentives" or some combined types get at first be more like a "slow zombie sedated yet not sedated feel" I hate the initial feel of slowing down but i can focus... the point is that I am the type who would go off of it for 1 week and do well and be "cured" in my mind also but the hyper part is what feels good and the rest of it doesnt so it evens out.

[*~ §EEK ~*]

Hello Bob1961
I would imagine being wiped out (dog a** tired) all the time from the Hep C would make it rather difficult to ascertain whether it is the Hep C dragging you down or the co-existing conditions of ADD that made (or make) you nonfunctional at times! That would be rather difficult to sort out!

Then include the tolerance you likely already have to any kind of stimulant, and I would imagine you would have great difficulty seeing any benifit to the lower doses prescribed for ADD.

I think FightingBoredom's advice was superb! You really should have your wife keep a diary of your behavior for a month (on the meds) then a month (off meds), but I would add that she should monitor your production output as well, since this seemed to be more of a concern to you from what you posted! Even a small percentage increase in production output is useful, don't you think??

Since I'm a dirt poor student, sometimes I get it in my mind that I don't need to take my Adderal XR on my days off, trying to save a little money since I pay full price for my meds and doctor visits. But, I have finally realize that laying about on my days off (Supposedly relaxing because I deserve a break, right?) is really just an excuse to be ADD inattentive and unproductive regarding the things that I really should be doing on my days off!

So, I've decided to stop doing that anymore, and just bite the bullet and pay for my medications.

That Adderal XR sure is pricey isn't it?? You would think there was GOLD in them pills!! Hmmm, now that I think about it, I’ll bet XR seems just like GOLD to the Drug Companies!! LOL They are certainly lining their pockets with plenty of profits!!

Anyway, for what it's worth that's my GOLDEN two cents! I hope everything works out for ya man!

Peace, and take care!

*~ §EEK ~*

[ADHDSupport]

Hi Bob

I am not an expert on any of this. BUT I am adhd so is my 7 yr old son.
OK my son got diagnosed 1st (this is common, from what I understand). When it became clear this was adhd and a very severe case at that, we (hubby and I) became totally freaked out at the thought of stimulant meds. Neither of us had any first hand knowledge of the disorder or the meds used to treat it, only heard the horror stories of it being bad, etc, right.
Ok so during a conversation with my sons therapist about the pros and cons of medicating a (then) just turned 6 year old and having him have to take these meds forever, his therapist said.

Its entirely possible that he may be able to take them for a few years until he is able to learn coping skills and life organizational strategies. Then he can come off them when he is older.

As it turns out he is unable to tolerate stimulant meds of any kind so he is now an unmedicated severly adhd boy so learning these skills is proving to be nearly impossible in his current situtation, but that is beside the point.

So I guess what I am saying is, sure, maybe it didn't *cure* it in the sense that we typically think of the word cure as in take away or eliminate the disorder, but its believable, to me at least, that it *cured* the symptoms, you now, after taking the adderall for that length of time, have developed coping mechanisms that you are able to employ basically on 'autopilot'.

Does that make sense?

-A

[Bob1951]

mspen1018, Seek, and ADHDSupport,

I love you guys/girls. I agree, Fightingboredom may be right. I am having wife monitor me. If she sees regression, back on the "speed" I go.

Here is a little real-life situation we all may be able to benefit from ...

On Wednesday, wife complains she lost steering on the lawn mower. I got home from work and took a look-see. Drag-rod balljoint let loose at steering arm. Now, fixing mowers is NOT stimulating for me so it is a real challenge. Know what I mean? Of course you do. You as ADHD as me. Give me a mind-bogling algorithm to figure out and the ol prefrontal lights up like a halogen. Fix a mower? Com'n. Snore, snore, snore.

So I get out my notebook and write down the fix. Remove arm. Take to hardware store. Get replacement. Bring home. Install. Cool ... I can do this. Then wife says "left rear tire keeps going flat." Damn! More boring work. Take out notebook. Write remove tire, take to tire shop, either replace or get inner tube. Cool ... I can do this. Then my little ol demented brain realizes should change oil and get blades sharpened while I am at it. Damn. I hate working on lawn mowers. Notebook, blah, blah, blah.

Now, today is Saturday in Penn's woods. And I accomplished all of the above with NO SPEED. Theory of relativity it is not. But for me, it was more difficult. But I did it using a pen and notebook to compensate for the working memory that don't work in me.

Will it keep up?

Time will tell. If not, I will let you'all know.

Bob

[Bob1951]

I was forced to reread several chapters in a computer programming classic, "Programming Windows" by Charles Petzold. I know it was going to be an all day affair, close to 10 hours it turned out, so I popped a speed pill.

Charles was talking about text metrics (how many letters will fit in a line) and said: "It has been well established by studies in reading that text printed with variable-pitch fonts is more readable than fixed-pitch font texts. It seems to have something to do with the letters being closer together, allowing the eyes and mind to more clearly see entire words rather than individual letters."

Interesting, I thought, guess that explains why reading quickly improves my reading comprehension - less "time" space. Less time for my thoughts to wander, less time "working" memory has to hold the details until the big picture emerges.

I thought, it is a shame that I got this factual, relatively easy to understand, completely trustworthy technical book but nada on ADHD.

But I do.

I first read Petzold must be close to 10 yrs ago now. Maybe longer. A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then. (Or is the saying 'over the damn'). I picked up many details that went over my head the first read. (Or is the saying "in one eye and out the other?)

So ...

I went to my 4 book ADHD library and picked out the physically smallest book "Beyond Ritalin" and started a reread. Good heavens boys and girls, it was like rereading Petzold. So much more meaningful, rich with details, that I could not / did not see on the first read which was when I was dxed. And it is factual and trustable. I'll bet my life on it because it harmonizes with my experience. One of my theories got blown to pieces but another got validated.

Let me pat myself on the back first. There is an abundance of scientific, provable, demonstratable, replicatable, body of knowledge on the "disorder" of ADHD. Just don't expect to get skilled direction from the MDs and their compadries because it seems as if they never read, much less studied, the disorder.

Why I am a triple assterisk: I got this "thing" born of bad experience that I must meet and beat all challenges that come at me. To control my ADHD is the goal. If I control it WITHOUT meds I win, if I control it WITH meds I win. In case you haven't noticed (sarcasm focused at myself) ADHD is EXTREMELY complex. Whether a particular method works for me does not mean it will work for you. Hell, 20+ percent of ADHDers do not respond to stimulants. For some, the side effects are too much. Others, "what side effects?"

Nevertheless there is a science to ADHD remediation. Why is it, then, that I and many others must "do it ourselves." It always comes down to the same thing: "money." For instance, my HMO will not pay for Adderall XR. Only generic which is immediate release. There is a big difference in efficacy. So I dig down into my bare pocket and pay for it myself. That along with the monthly HMO bill, and the copays brings us to about a grand a month for health costs. I wonder what kind of "ride" a grand a month could get me. A Ferrari? Hmmmm, maybe even a full tank of gas. The copay is higher for shrinks. The number of visits is limited. Same for therapy. I tell you, since I haven't done it for along time, I upped my Ritalin prescription by 300%. The "good" doctor gives me 10mg AM 10mg PM. I upped it 60 because 60 worked, 20 did not. I told him. Had to. Kept running out. He freaked. He got fired. Med management is not giving someone the lowest dose and "see you in three months." It should have been "see you in a week." I know a few others on this board got a royal flaming for trying someone else's speed or an "unauthorized" doseage increase. So flame me. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN. I was right, the highly skilled MD was wrong. No wonder there is so much "unauthorized" med management.

FightingBoredom,

I'm done. I think. I was going to rib you about me writing a long post while "speeding" but can't. The dang Adderall ran out on me a few hours ago. You are right. I am wrong. No dope. Long post.

Bob