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  #46  
Old 03-02-08, 07:37 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Brakna,

nice posts....here is another article from the same author(or category)....

I guess I fit in the short term relationship with most women. I have the more masquline male looks.... no wonder I have had so many flings!


How Women Pick Mates vs. Flings

By Abigail W. Leonard, Special to LiveScience
posted: 02 January 2007 11:39 am ET

Share this story********** var URI = escape(document.URL); var url = escape('/health/070102_facial_features.html'); var cap = escape(''); var t1 = $('headline').getElementsByTagName("h1"); var t2 = $('headline').getElementsByTagName("h2"); if(t1.length >= 1 || t2.length >= 1){ var t = (t1.length >= 1)? t1[0].innerHTML : t2[0].innerHTML; var title = escape(t); var str = 'url='+URI+'&title='+title; //delicious// document.write(''); document.write(''); document.write(''); document.write('
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Science might be able to explain our fascination with Brad Pitt's chiseled jaw and George Clooney's smoldering eyes.
Women seem to judge potential mates by how masculine their features are, new research shows. Men with square jaws and well-defined brow ridges are seen as good short-term partners, while those with more feminine traits such as a rounder face and fuller lips are perceived as better long-term mates.
In the study, 854 male and female subjects viewed a series of male head shots that had been digitally altered to exaggerate or minimize masculine traits. The participants then answered questions about how they expected the men in the photos to behave.
Overwhelmingly, participants said those with more masculine features were likely to be risky and competitive and also more apt to fight, challenge bosses, cheat on spouses and put less effort into parenting. Those with more feminine faces were seen as good parents and husbands, hard workers and emotionally supportive mates [compare examples].
Despite all the negative attributes, when asked who they would choose for a short-term relationship, women still selected the more masculine looking men. Brad and George then would be picks for a brief romance, if not the long haul.
Makes sense
The study, detailed in the December issue of the journal Personal Relationships, reached conclusions similar to research published earlier last year in Britain.
The new study's author, Daniel Kruger at the University of Michigan's School of Public Health, said that from an evolutionary perspective, it makes sense women would view more masculine-looking men as potential flings and less masculine-looking ones as long-term partners.
The key, he said, is testosterone, the hormone responsible for development of masculine facial features and other secondary sexual characteristics.
Testosterone is necessary for development, but can also have detrimental health effects. It has been shown, for example, to interfere with the body's immune response, so men who are able to maintain high levels of the hormone are typically strong and healthy—traits women would want to pass on to their progeny.
Increased testosterone has also been linked to male cheating and violence in relationships, so while these men might produce high quality offspring, they don't always make great parents or faithful mates, Kruger says.
The study suggests women could be equipped to use seemingly superficial characteristics "as a cue to pick up on trends in these behavioral strategies," Kruger said.
Get a clue
There are plenty of these signals in the animal world. Male peacocks' huge, outrageous tails can make foraging for food and evading predators difficult, but the plumage, which many researchers say indicates male fitness, is so effective at luring females that the trait has been preserved in the population, Kruger points out.
While the findings are compelling, the scientific community has typically greeted the field of physiognomy, which links facial characteristics to certain behavioral traits, with skepticism.
Kruger argues, however, that the research is a valuable tool for understanding mating strategies. And, of course, for explaining how Pitt and Clooney managed to snag People Magazine's "Sexiest Man Alive" title two times each—it might have to do with their genes, but could also have something to do with ours.
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  #47  
Old 03-05-08, 11:40 AM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

My dear husband who tells me I should talk more freely about what's on my mind, when I opened up the subject, after a longtime of letting things be and seeing how they evolved after a few months of counseling and I see where I still have some real issues, of how I need more time with him and need him to be more present, that I need him and need his time and attention and for him to grow in my direction - you know, the whole thing. A relationship. So he tells me, I should talk more. Um, yeah... when, in the spaces when he and our kids inhale and aren't actually speaking? What I haveto say is BIG. I can't cram it into the spot between "Hi, honey, I'm home" and "What's for dinner?"

He means well. He is so proud of himself for encouraging me to be more open. It's just so innocent... no, naive. Gaaahhhh! When I do that - speak freely about what I think and feel - I wind up in trouble. He does not see the flip side, that my taking him up on his proposal requires him to learn to actually drop his defenses and listen. So I have to dig in to my self and find the resources to deal with this constructively. For some reason, my years-long conflict resolution technique of stowing my feelings until they overwhelm me and then exploding like Vesuvius has proven less effective than I had hoped.

Okay. Done ranting for now.
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Old 03-12-08, 01:36 AM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

If mine interrupts me one more time I am going to strangle him - If I cared what was on TV I would be WATCHING IT!!!
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  #49  
Old 03-13-08, 09:30 AM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

I feel that because I have inattentive ADD plus depression and anxiety, that it has robbed me of having a life that other friends and family have. Because of my situation I'm not sure if I'll ever get married and have kids. There are others on here who are married with kids but it seems like a huge struggle for many of you. Even with meds and therapy I still feel it is not obtainable for me. Anyone else have similar thoughts like me?
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Old 03-13-08, 02:37 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Brakna, as you know I have similar thoughts. At my age, its getting more likely I will never get married. I'm at the point now where I'm just not worried about it anymore. I don't offer a whole lot to women anyway(besides my good looks and physically fit body ), I can't hold down jobs, and my impulsitivity and temper have always caused problems(Sugarmama's are probably out of the equation, but I'm always open to this!).... Its just a lot tougher for people in there mid 30s or older to find someone. I'm like a senfield episode. I'm always finding faults with women, that are usually not very important. I don't know why I'm like this. Most of the good ones are taken--unfortuantley!
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Old 03-13-08, 03:20 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameron View Post
Brakna, as you know I have similar thoughts. At my age, its getting more likely I will never get married. I'm at the point now where I'm just not worried about it anymore. I don't offer a whole lot to women anyway(besides my good looks and physically fit body ), I can't hold down jobs, and my impulsitivity and temper have always caused problems(Sugarmama's are probably out of the equation, but I'm always open to this!).... Its just a lot tougher for people in there mid 30s or older to find someone. I'm like a senfield episode. I'm always finding faults with women, that are usually not very important. I don't know why I'm like this. Most of the good ones are taken--unfortuantley!
Cameron,
That's an interesting point. Sometimes I feel like a Seinfeld character as well.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:45 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823 View Post
I forgot what I came here to rant about -nope no ADD here. . . . I guess I got distracted by the idea that some one is being hit . . .maybe I don't have much to complain about after all!

Beg to differ.

Have you read Scott Wetzler's Living With the Passive-Aggressive Man ? Stuff like interrupting you to ask your opinion then blowing you off, or telling you what's on TV when you're not interested in watching anything, also a few other things you've mentioned sound like they might fall under P/A patterns. The book has quite a few helpful suggestions.

M.
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Old 03-14-08, 12:54 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Brakna & Cameron,

Would marrying & having kids be your goal, or some item on society's checklist? Is your actual goal to reach a place emotionally, socially, materially, etc etc. where you'd have the option of engaging in a committed relationship?

What about deciding for the single life, and setting goals that'll get you where you want to be for yourself? Maybe therapy etc. will work better when you know it's just for you, not work on the road to getting family & friends off your back. I've found emotion-regulation training very helpful, as well as various group therapies.

Here's a different angle: in Germany, 30 is still a child, mid-30s is a sort of beginning-to-look-around age, and people get nervous at almost-40.

As for the "most of the good ones are taken" idea, don't discount the re-shuffle. If you get to where you want to be, the chances of a woman just showing up and taking your breath away aren't bad at all.

Hmm, there was something I did want to vent about ...

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  #54  
Old 03-15-08, 02:19 AM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

welcome to the Forum Maxine! nice post....I like seeing new people on here(there aren't that many that respond to the threads I post in--really refreshing!)

well, I'm not sure if being married is my goal or not. I don't really have any pressure at all anyway. I bascially don't have many friends, and my parents stay out of my life. Maybe when I see most everyone my age married, that factors into things. Sometimes I really like being "single and free", but some days(nights), I feel really lonely and bored. I believe if I had some single friends to go to dinners with, the movies, play golf, etc...I would be a lot more content. The loneliness is what gets to me the most. I realize though that having a woman in my life will not fix my "problems",etc....

Setting goals!? haha, well I have a problem doing this with my jobs and other area's of my life, I doubt this would work in my personal life.

Therapy? nope. I tried that a few years back with a relationship thearapist. He was a joke. Bascially he told me I'm a good looking guy, and I need to have more confidence! WTF!!!

i'm in the process of switching career's(again), so that is first on my mind. Secondly,I'm trying to move out of the "cow town" I live in. Woman right now are not a big priority for me. Maybe later this year.
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Old 03-15-08, 02:27 AM
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Re: Why the opposite sex is frustrating - vent thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
Sometimes I wish I was straight. Guys seem to be a lot less complicated.
I wouldn't be so sure about that Although my husband has been pretty great lately there are many complicated things about him!!
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Old 03-15-08, 02:44 AM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Quote:
ave you read Scott Wetzler's Living With the Passive-Aggressive Man ? Stuff like interrupting you to ask your opinion then blowing you off, or telling you what's on TV when you're not interested in watching anything, also a few other things you've mentioned sound like they might fall under P/A patterns. The book has quite a few helpful suggestions.
I appreciate the book suggestion and will check it out - I have lived with the passive aggressive and Gary is basically too impulsive for either - he thinks some thing is cool on TV he shares it because it popped into his brain He is soo busy trying to hang onto his own thought long enough to get it out so the fact he fails to notice I am in the middle of some thing else isn't far fetched Oh after he has told me what ever he might consider I am not interested but by then he has already disturbed me.

I never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by his hyperactive ADD - besides being disturbed while reading was an annoyance for me but I am not abused in any way = some times I fail to stop appreciate the problems I don't have. . . . reading about some one who was being hit gave me the perfect opportunity to do so.
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  #57  
Old 03-15-08, 12:49 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823 View Post
Gary is basically too impulsive for either - he thinks some thing is cool on TV he shares it because it popped into his brain
Well, to beat the dead P/A horse - P/As can be VERY impulsive.

Following is about my experience, probably not relevant to your H:

* P/A is not just silent scheming - in the case of my stbx-H, he simply wasn't aware of where he ended and others began. The catch: true impulsiveness generally has some positive aspect. When it's P/A, it's rarely to the other party's advantage.

* The disturbing-thing is a clear interpersonal boundaries issue for me. (For me. I'm so fresh out of this hellish relationship that I'm seeing little green men under every pumpkin, and pumpkins under every lantern-post.) Stbx-H interrupted impulsively and only cut it out when I started using a timer when I needed quiet time, and re-setting it to the beginning any time he interrupted. Suddenly, whatever had been so important before could wait 20 minutes.

* Abuse can take many forms. I'm not yet convinced of this, but am trying to get there. The social worker I see at the women's center insists that regular disturbance of basic needs constitutes a form of abuse. Doesn't have to be intentional - all that matters is how it affects my well-being. The other person's inability to consider the effects of their actions on my well-being doesn't mean I'm immune. (I thought of examples which stbx-H could use to show I was abusive, but they didn't actually hold up. Still, I question the logic.)



Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823 View Post
some times I fail to stop appreciate the problems I don't have. . . . reading about some one who was being hit gave me the perfect opportunity to do so.
I hear you. My allergic reaction to that is b/c I used the 'it could be so much worse' excuse to keep myself in an insidiously destructive situation for so long. Not your situation. Am big on gratefulness - it provides needed perspective.


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  #58  
Old 03-15-08, 03:55 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread


Meadd823 - Very grateful for this thread! Mine will be the longest vent
Chanston - Ruuuuun !!!!!!!! Please donít even consider marriage at your age, Iím not going into all the reasons why, Iíll just say that all older people will tell you that and for good reasons. Also it is not O.K. for your girl to hit you, ever , for anything. She has issues if she is hitting you and violence can become a circle. Also make sure you donít get her pregnant. Iím just going to throw this out there but there is a good chance if she is doing the marriage thing that she may have a, ďoops I only missed one pill how did this happenĒ. I hope this doesnít offend you, I sound like a mom and Iíve never had kids so humor me ;-)
Luthien - I drove a truck for years and did other jobs that are traditionally male. My last job was director of a non-profit that was all female. One thing that really surprised me was the male drivers of the trucking co. gossiped viciously , did really sneaky things to each other, and even made fun of how the others dressed. I was like how weird what a bunch of little bi@#$&. But I have always thought that being with a woman could have its own issues too because I know that going through the pre menopause hormonal hell is just lovely and the thing I think would bug me the most is ÖÖ oh hell I donít need to go into that. The MAN I live has all the nasty, mean, characteristics that are normally contributed to women. The other day he said, in admiration of something, ďthatís fierceĒ. Now the really weird part is he is 54 yrs, grew up on a east Texas ranch. Anyway ÖI accused him of screwing around. I had been gone out of town come home and he uses this word repeatedly. I donít think heís been watching Tyra. Like Luthian I also wonder if this disorder has made me either more sensitive to any game playing *****y stuff or if because of this disorder I have attracted other disordered mean people?
Dyinginside- Your posts about how a woman can sound, too funny and so true, as much as I hate to admit I see myself in some of that! About how do you know when to turn loose of a relationshipÖÖÖ.Very difficult question for me and I guess everyone. My first off the top of my head answer is when the relationship starts changing you into a person you wouldnít want to be. My boyfriend that I have lived with for 3 yrs is a narcissist. This has about pushed me over the edge. I also have now picked up some ugly things about myself that I donít like since living with him. I went from being very independent had been single and lived most of my life alone, did a tremendous amount of volunteer work, was a good friend to have, I loved life and more importantly myself. I still had all the ADD stuff going mainly procrastination and a little anxiety and depression, but I coped fairly well. Being with him has brought any insecurity I have ever had roaring to the surface. Now, WHY DONíT I LEAVE? At this point I really donít have the strength or care enough about me, emotionally Iím so bottomed out now. Plus now Iím financially dependent on him and have to have enough money to move with all my animals. Plus since I know I have had issues all my life a small part of me believes that maybe Iíll get treatment (donít see psych doc until 31st) and it will be better. His complaints about me are mostly ADD symptoms. If he truly has NPD than the best thing I can do is leave. Also right before getting with him I went through a bunch of stuff which started with my home burning to the ground and killing the animals I had then, and loosing all but the clothes I was wearing, and several other things happened in a small period of time that were almost that bad. I havenít had time to regroup and have to much PTSD stuff too. So part of me thinks that yea I have to be really screwed up and not so wonderful to live with so Iím going to work on that. Also with a Psychiatrist to talk to I will have someone to validate my feelings and help me with do I leave or stay.
Jarleigannor and Meadd823, The post about the hiding of the check, very passive aggressive, I live with this kind of stuff daily, no, hourly. That is such a classic example.
Now my small vent within a vent, my bf has been literally pawing at me the whole time I have been working on this post. Its not in a good way, itís the same old, ďwait a minute she is actually doing something thatís not about meĒ I feel assaulted when he does that. I told him to quit and he wonít I have to leave the room than come back when he is distracted. This is not about sex, I can feel it. Its about trying to control me.
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Old 03-19-08, 02:11 AM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Quote:
Abuse can take many forms. I'm not yet convinced of this, but am trying to get there. The social worker I see at the women's center insists that regular disturbance of basic needs constitutes a form of abuse.
I am reading this seeing man telling woman "well honey I would have told you the house was burning down but I know how you hate to be disturbed!"

I simply refuse to see pathology behind every behavior - I never assign malice to behaviors that can be easily explained by ADD - I use this rule when dealing with people here why would my husband who I share my life deserve any less consideration than I extend others.

I appreciate your above clarification - I have good personal boundaries but they don't prevent Gary from getting on my nerves every now and then . Some time venting it can defuse my emotions enough to see the difference between a boundary violation and me being irritable.
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Old 03-19-08, 01:09 PM
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Re: The Relationship - vent thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxine_Moritzia View Post
Well, to beat the dead P/A horse - P/As can be VERY impulsive.
This is an interesting topic. This definition of passive agressive personality doesn't sound very impulsive to me.
From: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/000943.htm

Definition Return to top
Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a chronic condition in which a person seems to passively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them, in the process becoming increasingly hostile and angry.
Psychiatrists no longer recognize this condition as an official diagnosis. However, the symptoms are problematic to many people and may be helped by professional attention, so we include it here.
Causes Return to top
The causes are unknown, but a combination of genetic and environmental factors are probably responsible.
Symptoms Return to top
People with this disorder resent responsibility and show it through their behaviors, rather than by openly expressing their feelings. Procrastination, inefficiency, and forgetfulness are commonly used to avoid doing what they need to do or have been told by others to do.
A person with this disorder may appear to comply with another's wishes and may even demonstrate enthusiasm for them. However, the requested action is either performed too late to be helpful, performed in a way that is useless, or is otherwise sabotaged to express anger that cannot be expressed verbally.
* * * * * * * * * *
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