Amphetamine come-down

[Fuse]

Hey there.

I've started medication again for the first time in 4 or 5 years. I used to be on Ritalin for 5 years then Dexamphetamine Sulphate for another 5 (IIRC).

Anyhoo, it's been two days now, and already I'm noticing some tell-tale signs of side-effects.

Today, a few hours after the last tablet should have worn off (assuming 4 hours per tablet) I noticed I was making weird breathing patterns/noises with my nose unconsciously. It was very slight, and I wouldn't take notice except that I distinctly recall that nervous 'tics' like this were one of the problems I used to have on Ritalin and Dex. Further, my mood change is also noticeable a couple of hours after the tablet has fully worn off; I become withdrawn and isolated - possibly more irritable (all these symptoms are slight and mild, but I will likely increase my dose eventually, so they can only become more pronounced).

I'm drinking lots of citrus fruit juice, because I heard Vitamin C increases urinary tract acidity, helping to flush remaining amphetamine out of the system (so I am mostly clear before I take it the next day). Is this a good or a bad idea? Is the come-down caused by trace amounts of amphetamine left in the system, or the rapid decrease in dopamine levels available? I believe that flushing in this way will help prevent tolerance, no?

This is all based on a trial of 2 days on a dose of 2 * 5 mg 4 hours apart (starting at 8am). This is, of course, a small amount of time, and a small amount of amphetamine... however, given that these experiences are similar to what I recall about my experiences with amphetamine years ago (and I think I went up to 30 mg a day at one point), I'm inclined to worry.

[LittlePrincess]

Now, I could be totally wrong here... but I understand it as Vitamin C/citric acid will slightly decrease the absorption of amphetamines. Meaning, consuming citrus fruits, Vitamin C, etc. will have more of an effect when you're dosing, not during the "comedown." Since this would be several hours later, your body has already reached it's "maximum absorption" of the drug. I never noticed any effect of consuming citric acid when taken later in the day (i.e. several hours after my last dose). Though I generally try to avoid things like orange juice near the same time as my doses.

I'm not entirely sure about the "flush" effect of amphetamine by citric acid though. My thoughts are that IF there is such an effect, it would be very, very slight.

Hope that made at least a little bit of sense. I'm interested to know what others here on the forum have to say. Many of them probably have actual experience with this.

[selby]

Originally Posted by Fuse

Today, a few hours after the last tablet should have worn off (assuming 4 hours per tablet) I noticed I was making weird breathing patterns/noises with my nose unconsciously. It was very slight, and I wouldn't take notice except that I distinctly recall that nervous 'tics' like this were one of the problems I used to have on Ritalin and Dex.

I DO THIS TOO!!! Thought I was alone

I agree with LittlePrincess. When I've taken meds with OJ, it seems like they barely work, but if I drink OJ hours later it's unaffected. Just personal experience.

[bobC]

Honestly this flushing method may have the opposite effect. Unless your having bowel movments every 12 hours higher intestinal acidity may leave more dexedrine in your sytem the next day. In theory I bet its not a significant amount though.

I'm with princess it only makes a significant difference >10% if you drink OJ + take your amphetamines within ~30 mins of eachother. This also goes for eating foods that give you heartburn.

BobC

[Fuse]

Yeah I'm aware avoiding OJ an hour before and after taking a dose, though good to get confirmation on that.

BobC: But amphetamine removal is near 100% renal, whilst the half-life of citric acid is like 30 minutes. The average healthy person urinates many times in a day, not to mention vitamin C is a diuretic. So with all this, once the amphetamine has left the brain after about 4 hours, drinking OJ would help clear it from the body totally, right?

I can see why you don't put much stock in this idea, though. I'm not convinced it's that beneficial myself, since the OJ would help flush it from the body completely, not remove it from the blood.

[ozchris]

Do you mean you take two 5mg tablets twice a day? or one twice a day?

keep the dose low as possible and try using normal dose in the morning and a half dose at lunch. that way it kind of decreases the level in your body slowly instead of a big crash all at once.

[Fuse]

Hmm. Interesting idea. Thanks.

I'm not getting a crash at all; 10mg over 8 hours is a really low dose, right? But I can see the beginnings of a crash; and from past experience can imagine what will happen if I increase my dose, so I guess I'm planning ahead for when I increase my dose (because tolerance is inevitable, right?)

[bobC]

I had great results with lower rebound from a larger first dose and lower doses later in the day 10,5,5 for me every 4 hours. Not that dexedrine has much of a rebound (I get kinda sleepy at worst).

Fuse: removal vs absorbtion are different things. I have seen people say taking acid reducers increase the longevity of a dose. I assumed it was due to increase in absorbtion not sure about increase/decrease in removal

A number of peole have posted that citrus helps with rebound I figured it was more of a sugar rush kinda thing.

I'm starting to think that a lot of the rebound side effects are caused by vaso expansion(?) after alpha-2 stimulation causes vaso-constrction. Kinda like a mild inflamation thru the whole body as the dose wears off.

BobC

[bobC]

Somewhere I read that tolerance is pretty slow to develop in doses under 40mg per day for d-amp.

I'm fairly certain tolerance would be effected by a number of things like smoking, drinking, having sex, pretty much anything considered addictive. I guess i'm trying to say avoid peak levels of dopamine.

BobC

[Mincan]

heh...

[Fuse]

Originally Posted by bobC

Somewhere I read that tolerance is pretty slow to develop in doses under 40mg per day for d-amp.

Thanks, I was looking for exact figures. That sounds about right.

[dan_the_man]

the feeling of lonelyness/isolation on come down is terrible

i take alot of vitamin c with the tablets as it can help lower cortisol secretion (dex has been shown to increase cortisol levels = fat gain in stomach area )

the tics thing can be a *****. i find it gives me bad OCD... combined with over worrying... i feel i'm a wreck at the end of the day


the only thing that keeps me sane is the awesome focus levels whilst on dexamphetamine and by telling myself "its just the tablets making u feel uneasy"

Originally Posted by Fuse

Hey there.

I've started medication again for the first time in 4 or 5 years. I used to be on Ritalin for 5 years then Dexamphetamine Sulphate for another 5 (IIRC).

Anyhoo, it's been two days now, and already I'm noticing some tell-tale signs of side-effects.

Today, a few hours after the last tablet should have worn off (assuming 4 hours per tablet) I noticed I was making weird breathing patterns/noises with my nose unconsciously. It was very slight, and I wouldn't take notice except that I distinctly recall that nervous 'tics' like this were one of the problems I used to have on Ritalin and Dex. Further, my mood change is also noticeable a couple of hours after the tablet has fully worn off; I become withdrawn and isolated - possibly more irritable (all these symptoms are slight and mild, but I will likely increase my dose eventually, so they can only become more pronounced).

I'm drinking lots of citrus fruit juice, because I heard Vitamin C increases urinary tract acidity, helping to flush remaining amphetamine out of the system (so I am mostly clear before I take it the next day). Is this a good or a bad idea? Is the come-down caused by trace amounts of amphetamine left in the system, or the rapid decrease in dopamine levels available? I believe that flushing in this way will help prevent tolerance, no?

This is all based on a trial of 2 days on a dose of 2 * 5 mg 4 hours apart (starting at 8am). This is, of course, a small amount of time, and a small amount of amphetamine... however, given that these experiences are similar to what I recall about my experiences with amphetamine years ago (and I think I went up to 30 mg a day at one point), I'm inclined to worry.

[ozchris]

Do you take a magnesium supplement? I've found it helps Dex. effectiveness and the comedown when it wears off.

[dan_the_man]

i actually do have some but have never tried it.

if you think it will help. then I'll give it a go

[stuartheth]

i'm about to go back onto dex's..been off them for about a year travelling....really missed the little suckers.