vyvanse 70mg vs. corepharma adderall 2x20mg IR

[paravis]

ok so here's the deal ...

i had been on vyvanse for seven months now, since like july of '07. i started at 30mg for a few days, then went to 50mg, and for most of the time i was at 70mg per day.

the majority of my ADHD symptoms were managed very well with vyvanse, and it provided, literally, 24-hour support. one thing that i desperately need my medication for is to wake me up proper, which vyvanse didn't do nearly as well as the adderall (because of the way my body metabolizes it). so i would always have to drink coffee first thing when i would get out of bed to finish waking me up.

the only real drawback for me on vyvanse was that instead of shortening the duration and hitting the proper height of effectiveness, it was like stretched over a much longer period of time than i needed it to work. so i was unable to really control my inattentiveness as well as i would have liked.

i did actually try taking 2 70mg vyvanse one time, but all that did was extend the time, and not increase the effectiveness. if they would make something that was twice as effective in the same amount of time, i think that would ultimately be the best possible option for me (because when comparing vyvanse to adderall IR strictly in terms of quality of drug, vyvanse is, by far, superior) ... but alas, they don't, and so i had to find something else that would work best for me.

last week, i asked my doctor to try something a little less "controlled" and we decided to go with two 20mg adderall IR per day. i got the prescription filled with corepharma generics. i got home and read that they were supposedly not good, or gave headaches, or whatever, and that was kind of a bummer. but when i tried them out the next morning, i really actually found nothing wrong with them. they actually worked really well (imo), and i found no negative effects whatsoever (and, let me tell you, i am a real nitpicker when it comes to drugs, effectiveness, and side-effects). in fact, i really liked them .

anyways, i took one at like 7-8am, which would *FULLY* wake me up within 20 minutes (i have a really hard time waking up in the morning). so that was really good ... within an hour and a half of taking it, my focus was spot on exactly how i needed it to be (at a level that was never achieved on vyvanse). it also helped my communications and social skills more than vyvanse, and was sufficient enough to really take care of almost every symptom i have to deal with everyday.

but of course, the 20mg IR's were short-lived (compared to vyvanse). by like 5 hours after initially swallowing the first pill, i would start to lose that edge of attention, so i would go for the second dose. with two doses, i would have complete symptom control for about 10 hours. for the rest of the evening, until i went to sleep, i was definitely still "ok" in terms of handling fidgety-ness and other mild symptoms. i couldn't write a report or anything after like 6:30pm though, ha ha.

another thing, when comparing vyvanse 70mg to adderall IR 2x20mg's after like 7pm in the evening, the vyvanse was definitely more effective in general. while i couldn't ever really feel a "comedown" on either one, i could definitely notice the adderall losing its effectiveness, whereas the vyvanse was just always working.

i actually fell asleep a lot easier with the addy's than on vyvanse, and i slept really well through the whole night (on vyvanse it was normal for me to wake up a few times a night).

overall, i think that the adderall 2x20mg IR's are a step in the right direction for me. but i do feel like i'm going to have to either increase the dose, add another dose, or something. because, i really do need reliable 16-hour coverage of *all* symptoms ... it is always kind of crappy to be "on" for the majority of the day, and then to hit a point where i'm "off" ha ha.

the vyvanse *definitely* covered every waking hour throughout the whole day for everything except for attention and focus. so, if i did not need to really concentrate on anything or plan out and complete big projects, then the vyvanse would easily suffice. plus, the vyvanse was such low maintenance too ...

but anyways, as far as my personal symptoms go, adderall is much more potent and short-lived, but way higher maintenance. i could always depend on vyvanse to be active for as long as i am awake, although without hitting the point where i could definitely focus properly. so right now, i'm kind of trading off duration and reliability for effectiveness. there's definitely not a perfect solution that i've found out there, but i'm working on it.

here's a graph i made that might explain things a little better:


here's my ratings:

peak effectiveness~
vyvanse 70mg - 7/10 (did not achieve full attention)
adderall 2x20mg IR - 10/10 (perfect)

ease of use~
vyvanse 70mg - 9/10 (one pill, once a day)
adderall 2x20mg IR - 7/10 (have to carry second dose)

duration~
vyvanse 70mg - 8/10 (too long)
adderall 2x20mg IR - 7/10 (not long enough)

side-effects~
vyvanse 70mg - 9/10 (12am-7am, still too effective)
adderall 2x20mg IR - 7/10 (less appetite, more teeth clenching)

overall (average of all)~
vyvanse 70mg - 8.3/10
adderall 2x20mg IR - 7.8/10

if i change my adderall regimen to increase the duration, then it would definitely be superior in terms of overall symptom management. one thing to note, adderall 2x20mg IR contains *slightly* more total amphetamine than vyvanse 70mg ... but vyvanse contains *only* dextroamphetamine, as opposed to d-/levoamphetamine mixture as in adderall (so, essentially the vyvanse contains more of the CNS-effecting dextroamphetamine than adderall). i definitely like the single dextro isomer a lot more than i like the mixed salts, but for the sake of dealing with my symptoms, i'll take what works.

(i am thinking about asking my psychiatrist if he would let me try dextrostat 4x10mg per day in order to more accurately compare the added effects of levoamphetamine ... because i'm thinking that pure dextroamphetamine is, for me, much more psychologically therapeutic without adding some of the physical side-effects of levoamphetamine)

feel free to ask any questions.
~laz

[paravis]

oh, and just so you know :

my symptoms are relatively severe for inattentiveness ... i do have *some* hyperactivity symptoms, but they are mainly just fidgeting or foot tapping (or similar things), and not anything compared to most ADHD primarily-hyperactive diagnoses.

[BASSOUNDS]

I trust you have a physician you are working with, and one suggestion is to discuss using vyvanse in addition to an immediate release formulation. Based on your description, I might suggest decreasing to 50mg Vyvanse and adding 5mg adderall imediate release, taken once or twice a day. Vyvanse can take an hour or more to work, so some people take an immediate release formulation first thing in the morning.

That's just one idea, but please talk with your doctor before making any changes.

[hollywood]

paravis-

Nice illustration on the graph, oddly enough I think that you and I both have similar responses to both drugs. Vyvanse gave me mediocre attention span for a much longer duration rather than give me full symptom control over a shorter duration. I too have had success on the adderall ir formulations ( ie ) 30mg ir tabs . I used to take 2 daily and when they were in unison I had close to full symptom control for about 5-7 hours. The vyvanse for me basically just lasts longer. How have you done in the past on the adderall xr formulations?

[paravis]

Actually, I haven't ever tried Adderall XR.

I've been on Vyvanse 70mg, 2xAdderall IR 20mg (generic), and 3.5x10mg Dexedrine IR (generic).

Ya Vyvanse definitely lasts longer for me. If they could only make a formulation that would be as strong-acting as Dex/Adderall and as long-lasting as Vyvanse, I'd be set.

I'm sure the Vyvanse potency has something to do with the way my body is metabolizing the lysine off of the dextroamphetamine. But, since there's no way to investigate the actual cause, I've switched to IR formulations and they are working much better (although I wish they would have coverage like Vyvanse ... I hate having to figure out when is best for second/third dose, etc).

Also, per bassounds suggestion, that might work well, but I've gotta figure something that I can afford. So, looks like I'll be dealing w/ generic IR formulations for now.

You know, the only reason there isn't a *perfect* 1 time per day long-lasting and strong-acting ADHD stimulant med is because then those freaks wouldn't make money off of our shortcomings! ha ha, well, seriously though, they probably do have the next 20 years of products already developed, but they're just waiting to release them after the previous patents run out. Bleh.

[hollywood]

parvis,
i'm sure they have some drug out there that is not only long lasting but is more potent as well. I mean it makes sense to develop a drug that lasts long ( like vyvanse) but if these companies keep judging their progress from controlled environments then of course the results will always come out different, or shall we say "flawed, skewed, Inaccurate"! .

[Tylerlee17]

Have you tried 40mg of Adderall XR in the morning? For me it lasts longer than 2 20mg IR but has similiar (not the same though) results. Shire's got a SPD456 or some experiemental number drug they're working on too (I forgot the SPD number). It's gonna offically be called Adderall XR2 when released but they're in no hurry to release it with their patent on Vyvanse being brand new. It's 'supposedly' gonna be an Adderall XR dosage with 3 waves instead of the typical 2. I have no idea how they compare in terms of graphing for effective timeframes and such since there's I've yet to see any studies publicly listed for it yet but it's still supposed to be the typical 25% levo- 75% Dextro combo.

[hollywood]

tylerlee17

The last time I tried adderall I was on the ir formulations, adderall ir 30mg two times daily with another 15ir in the evening, that was probably the absolute best for total symptom control..... I don't think vyvanse controls all my adhd symptoms, it may be smoother but that doesn't mean better. My doctor has prescribed me adderall xr and said I could trial on the weekends to see how it goes. I think I'm going to try the xr and see how it goes this weekend.

[Bipolarruledout]

Your own liver is the limiting factor with Vyvance. DO NOT make the mistake of directly comparing the dose to adderall XR.... the conversion is in no way exact. You can take alot more adderall than you can Vyvance because adderall has it's own matrix which breaks down overtime. Vyvance uses your liver to convert the drug into dextroamphetamine... and it can only convert so much. The detrostat (or dexedrine, dextroamphetamine, etc.) is a good option but try it IN ADDITION TO the Vyvance. They also make dexidrine spanuals (sustained release) but these don't have a good reputation. You may find that 10mg in the morning and 5mg 2-3 times a day of dex with the Vyvance is just what you need. Many doctors have "issues" with scripting dex so you might suggest this option over ditching the vyvance or adderall completly. You can also combine adderall XR with Vyvance if need be or even adderall IR. Your doctor may perfer scripting the dex spanuals.

You are correct with reguard to the levo in the adderall. The levo has a reputation for more side effects including the jaw clenching.

One more thing.... with the Dexedrine or dextrostat go with brand if your insurance will cover it and make sure your doctor writes "dispense as writen" if you are SURE you are going with brand. Keep in mind that it may be hard to find. If going generic avoid the barr version... just trust me, it's HORIBLE. (Avoid ANY stimulant by barr!) Malenkdrot (sp?) generic is well respected. Your phamicist will stick you crappy generics if you don't ask before hand. Picking it up at the register is not a good time to ask what they filled.

[hollywood]

What's up people. great reply and my adhd thanks you all.... So far on the adderall xr I'm feeling much more normal and in control than I was with concerta ( had been taking in the past ) and for now regarding vyvanse. I'd be willing to give vyvanse a shot in the future , but your correct the barr dexedrine booster don't do anything at all. I had the 5mg name brand dexedrine ir's that you speak of a few years ago and it worked wonders... Maybe that's an option for next month , until then I'm making progress once again.... It's nice to think again-

[ramblin reck]

the graph is great, illustrates my response to vyvanse also, and I need FOCUS. I am not getting the attention benefit that I need from vyvanse. I can wake up if I go to bed before 10 but if I push into that second wind, I ruin my night's sleep which is fragile anyhow; vyvanse is making sleep worse

[ramblin reck]

Originally Posted by Tylerlee17

but they're in no hurry to release it with their patent on Vyvanse being brand new.

the pharmaceutical companies are playing with our minds ...PA will no longer fund my Adderall XR attempting to force me to vyvanse. Nice to know what i need may be available in the future, but I'm in grad school NOW, grrr

Originally Posted by Tylerlee17

It's 'supposedly' gonna be an Adderall XR dosage with 3 waves instead of the typical 2.

all I needed to do to fix that wave problem was split my capsule and take the half 2-3 hrs apart, as long as before noon so I could sleep that night.

Keeping up with Adderall IR all day will be a challenge, but vyvanse just is not helping my attn or motivation

I did not realize til reading here that there are different generics.

[calvary1980]

vyvanse is 30% d-amphetamine binded to a protein it only lets so much into your system if you double the dosage it will simply extend the half-life not the effectiveness think of it like this vyvanse is a trail of army ants going into your brain one at a time for the better part of a day where adderall floods your brain with army ants for a short period of the day. the people who complain about vyvanse im sure there brains are not being sufficiently stimulated.

- Christine

[~CiCi~]

What is adderall ir? I use to be on xr which is the time release but not anymore...Now I'm just on the regular adderall.

[kwalk]

the guy above you gives a good metaphor of an example of the answer= Instant Release. All at once, for two three or four hours.