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  #1  
Old 05-15-08, 02:13 AM
KurtG85 KurtG85 is offline
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Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

How destructive is adderall to brain tissue?
I don't want to hear "oh, its legal and given to kids so it must be fine," I want to actually see evidence, if there even is any.
Many stories I have read of people coming off of 100mg of adderall a day sound exactly like meth withdrawal and, of course, it is amphetamine. I would imagine damage is not as severe as meth use but the damage potential still needs to be made clear.
I would guess drug companies would try and do everything in their power to block these kinds of studies from seeing the light of day. Anyone have any info on any such studies? Surely adderall has been out long enough to have long term users to analyze.
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Old 05-15-08, 03:48 AM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Methamphetamine may have some special properties that make it dose per dose more toxic than other common stimulants but those other stimulants likely do have a measurable risk of neurotoxicity also. The quanties of methamphetamine used in neurotoxicity studies are insanely high though.

d-meth at 20 mg /kg is used in many neurotoxicity studies. d-methamphetamine is at least 3 times as potent as adderal. That would equate to 60 mg /kg of adderall(in a single dose at a time and for a number of days in some studies). A 75 kg person would have to take 1500 mg of 100% pure
d-methamphetamine at one time or 4500 mg of adderral. Assuming it has the same molar toxicity (which I don't ) 135.21 /149.23 * 1500 = 1359 mg adderal. Oh excessive dopamine itself is likely a major factor in neurotoxicity of methamphetamine thats why its likely toxic relative to its potency and half-life (both greater than adderall). Thats why the 4500 mg adderall estimate is likely a low estimate when compared to 1500 mg d-meth.

Anyway 120 mg adderall daily is a reasonable amount for a 75 kg person to take over a day. 120 /4500 * 100 = 2.7% or less of the d-meth toxic dose.

So thats like comparing a person who drinks 1 12 oz can of beer over the entire day and one who drinks 37 cans instantly.

Also many common substance can block the neurotoxicity effect of methamphetamine and presumably could do the same for other stimulants.

http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48296
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Old 05-15-08, 08:28 AM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Amphetamine and Methylphenidate (ritalin) have been used in medicinal practice for decades. They are very safe when properly used.

The stuff you hear about happening to meth addicts are due to multiple issues. Primarily an average dose of street meth is I'm guessing super-high (100mg+ in dosage). Also like almost any other street drug, meth is also mixed with a bunch of other contaminants used in the cooking process. Quite common to have ingredients such as lithium (from batteries), phosphorus, ammonia and maybe a few others. I'm no meth expert by any means but reading up on the stuff and most other street drugs the process of creating isn't for chemical purity or quality.

J
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Old 05-15-08, 08:29 AM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

d00000000000d !!!

(how do I thank theta for an illuminating post? I r a newbie!)
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Old 05-15-08, 08:51 AM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Click on the "thanks" button, bottom right hand corner of each post.
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Old 05-15-08, 10:47 AM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Quote:
Surely adderall has been out long enough to have long term users to analyze.

The fact that many who have been on adderall for lengths of time measured in decades are still among the living. We who have been on adderall a decade or longer have enough cognition to not only respond to post we actually have enough operating brain material to convey complex thoughts, ideas, and to defend the truth against ignorance. . . as far as the amount of brain erosion I am suffering - read a sample of my thoughts and analyze it for your self.
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  #7  
Old 05-15-08, 01:56 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

I've read that meth causes dopamine receptors to downregulate in the long run. Will this happen with Adderall?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Tolerance

If so, is it reversible? Just worried...
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Old 05-15-08, 04:59 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mochi View Post
I've read that meth causes dopamine receptors to downregulate in the long run. Will this happen with Adderall?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine#Tolerance

If so, is it reversible? Just worried...
Yes and its consider a normal part of the treatment response. A long run is
1-2 months. Its reversible taking around the same amount of time off the meds.
The potential for a problem is if your body is very efficient at down-regulating
it might in short order make any reasonable dose of a stimulant ineffective.
Thats can be a problem because many doctors have limits on the max dose
they will prescribe.

Quote:
1: Neuropediatrics. 2003 Apr;34(2):77-80.
Links
Methylphenidate down-regulates the dopamine receptor and transporter system in children with attention deficit hyperkinetic disorder (ADHD).
Vles JS, Feron FJ, Hendriksen JG, Jolles J, van Kroonenburgh MJ, Weber WE.

Department of Child Neurology, University Hospital Maastricht, Maastricht, The Netherlands. jvle@sneu.azm.nl

Adults suffering from Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) are known to have disturbed central dopaminergic transmission. With Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography (SPECT) we studied brain dopamine transporter and receptor activity in six boys with ADHD. Three months after initiation of treatment with methylphenidate we found a down-regulation of the post-synaptic dopamine receptor with a maximum of 20 % and a down-regulation of the dopamine transporter with a maximum of 74.7 % in the striatal system. This corresponded to a positive clinical response evaluated by neuropsychological questionnaires and tests. We suggest that dopamine transporter imaging by SPECT might be used to monitor psychostimulant treatment in children suffering from ADHD.

PMID: 12776228 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Old 05-15-08, 05:03 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Theta, thanks for post but you lost me a bit in your math.

So adderall is 1/3rd the potency of d-meth?
Then you said (im guessing) that adderall is 2.7% as toxic as an equivalent d-meth dose? Could you clarify what you were saying there for me? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meadd823 View Post
The fact that many who have been on adderall for lengths of time measured in decades are still among the living. We who have been on adderall a decade or longer have enough cognition to not only respond to post we actually have enough operating brain material to convey complex thoughts, ideas, and to defend the truth against ignorance. . . as far as the amount of brain erosion I am suffering - read a sample of my thoughts and analyze it for your self.
Your defensiveness is misplaced. Are you implying its ignorant of me to wonder if there have been studies done on possible brain damage related to adderall use because that in itself is clearly ignorant.

I dont know what you were trying to convey with the sentence: "The fact that many who have been on adderall for lengths of time measured in decades are still among the living.", but I will assume you meant to say that because those who have been on adderall for time that can be measured in decades are still among the living means that its un-harmful to the brain. If that is what you were trying to say, that is an ignorant basis for that conclusion.

Whatever the reason for your defensiveness, chill out and get off your high horse because your talking to someone who has been on adderall for a decade who, as was stated very simply in the original post, was just curious if anyone had any info or seen studies done on this topic.

I'd be happy to read other posts you've made, just please don't contribute completely unwarranted and unproductive defensiveness in threads i've started, its a waste of both of our time.
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Old 05-15-08, 05:19 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtG85 View Post
Then you said (im guessing) that adderall is 2.7% as toxic as an equivalent d-meth dose?
Thats right. Typical ADHD treatment levels of adderall vs known neurotoxic levels of d-meth.
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Old 05-15-08, 07:04 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtG85 View Post
How destructive is adderall to brain tissue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtG85 View Post
your talking to someone who has been on adderall for a decade
What symptoms are you having?
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Old 05-15-08, 09:54 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Great answer Theta. Way to get down!
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Old 05-15-08, 10:13 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtG85 View Post
Your defensiveness is misplaced. Are you implying its ignorant of me to wonder if there have been studies done on possible brain damage related to adderall use because that in itself is clearly ignorant.
...
"The fact that many who have been on adderall for lengths of time measured in decades are still among the living."
I'm pretty sure meadd wasn't being defensive. I don't think she was aiming any antagonism at you. It's hard for the people who've seen a lot of ignorance in the area of medication over many years to not speak out avidly. There's many people on ADDF who are very passionate about ignorance, (caused mainly by the media), so you'll have to excuse those people who do appear to bite heads off.
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Old 05-15-08, 10:24 PM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

Clinical Trial: "Genetic Measurements in Blood Cells of Children Taking Adderall or Methylphenidate"

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/record/NCT00341029

It doesn't specify they are looking for eroding brain tissue, but they are looking at chromosomal changes in this study, which who knows what they may or may not conclude at the end, so not sure this is the general direction of what you are looking for or not............
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Old 05-16-08, 01:00 AM
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Re: Studies on adderall eroding brain tissue like meth?

adderrall is a match, and meth is a volcano.
....both will light a cigerrette, but one burns your face off.

I m a meth addict 3 years clean.
...I was an active addict 22 years.

meth withdrawls:

........I was terrified to sleep, I had paralysis dreams, that terrified me.
was hallucinating wildly, after 8 hours sleep............ for months.

my chest rattling, with wet, thick, toxic speed mucus.
...my mom, watching me, sometimes trying to wake me, when she saw me
twitching from the paralysis dreams.

she thought I was dying.
........at that point, I was very sick for 3 weeks.
I saw auras for 2 months...
..spinning wheels of transparent color.
the breaker box issue......where I'd 'shut down" and then right before Id faint
come back on....like someone flipped my main breaker switch off and on
also, went on for 3 weeks.....
........my urine was dark brown...I was dehydrated...translucent, dry skin.
my face was sunken in..
I had HORRIBLE STOMACH ACHES...
......................EVERY TIME I ate, I was sick.
I was so malnourished, dehydrating and starving....so sick, angry, humilated, agoraphobic....
....with a bad hair cut.
(I useta cut my hair on meth a dead giveaway to my whole family)

I did'nt wanna see my family....my mom's sis, and my cousin's live here too.

...I wouldn't leave the house.

I cried, and cried, and slept, and ate, and hurt, and cried some more...

my aunt is an RN.
.....my mom asked her to look at me..
she told me she was afraid I really did some damage this time...
........that, she was afraid I was not gonna just "bounce back" like the other times.

my mother with large searching eyes.
..................waited outside my "shell" that contained my
very muffled true self ..mentally pacing..
...hoping and praying, one day I would fill it once more with "HER SUZIE"
instead... suicidal , depressive words, and hatred and contempt...that I did'nt die.

spilled from my mouth
............like some devil.
I was angry for a year and a half.
......I wanted to die in the streets of vegas...wrapped in shadows, and darkness.




adderrall withdrawl:
...........for a week to 2 weeks...

tired, foggy, lethargic, depressed...(nothing compared to meth)




........big difference.

I did'nt know i was ADHD.
........adderrall has IMPROVED the quality of my life.
my family is happy with my behaivior.

......meth is a whole different drug,
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