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Old 08-05-08, 01:40 AM
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What's ASPD like?

I have noticed there's some overlap between ASPD and a few other personality disorders, namely Narcissistic PD and Schizoid PD. (If this comparison is completely off-base, please let me know, as I'm drawing this off the top of my head.)

I'm also interested in the interplay between social anxiety/avoidance and ASPD, if there is one.

Anyone?
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Old 08-05-08, 04:14 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Antisocial Personality Disorder is another name for sociopath and/or psychopath.

Some researchers like Martha Stout or Russell Hare for example think that a psychopath or a sociopath are a more severe variation of ASPD.

People with ASPD have no conscience, kind of like those news stories about groups of young men mugging and robbing an old woman or the Enron scandal. They do come from all walks of life and research indicates that only 20% of people in the prison systems today are actually psychopaths/sociopaths. Most of them are normal every day people that engage in their behavior on a legal level. It is more common in men than women. I do believe that there is an ASPD member or two here, I imagine that few of them would survive very long on this site because of how callous some of them can be. Using empathy sort of allows me to see that there could be a lot of unnecessary stigma attached to those who carry that label as well. They tend to have no empathy either.

As far as social situations go with ASPD it is usually for some personal gain or a scam of some sort or else they generally have no use for people at all. That is where it ties in with Narcissism and Schizoid Personality Disorder. Narcissism is all about exploiting and using others to feed a haughty image of oneself and Schizoid Personalities generally are self-sufficient people who aren't as amoral or destructive as say a Narcissist or ASPD sufferer, yet do not see the need to deal with people, seems to me like a label for loners, but it also seems to me that society labels everything these days.


Just a quick question here? Are you thinking of Avoidant Personality Disorder??

I think Antisocial in this diagnosis implies that means 'against society' as opposed to social anxiety related.

I guess if they committed a crime and were paranoid about getting caught, because most don't feel guilty, then there may be some social anxiety issues, but they are in good control when they want to be, most of the time.

Other PD's that go along with it most are the other cluster B's, like Borderline and Narcissistic most often. There's also some issues with gender, it is often quoted that "Women are labelled 'borderline' and men are labelled 'antisocial'" Which isn't fair because society does cater to the needs of a BPD sufferer and generally throw away ASPD sufferers and neither PD is in any position to wear a halo. When the DSM-V comes out there may be more expansion of the PD's.
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Old 08-06-08, 03:39 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sickle View Post
Just a quick question here? Are you thinking of Avoidant Personality Disorder??
No, I was just bringing up the idea of social anxiety/avoidance here because I noticed in the writings of some ASPD members here, there is a tendency to avoid people, and I wondered if it had anything to do with anxiety but as you point out, it's not really an anxiety issue for this PD.

I know all about Avoidant PD, as I fit the criteria pretty well for that one myself.

So the greater question for me on the interplay between Narcissistic PD and Antisocial PD. I've read somewhere that NPDs can be bullies at school, can manipulate or lie to people without feeling remorse, etc etc. There is also a lack of empathy for NPD.

I guess one of the key differences is that Antisocial PDs aren't so much worried about their reputation and therefore are much more likely to engage in disruptive behavior.
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Old 08-06-08, 03:50 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

I'm not a narcissist, as I dislike personal attention and the curiosity of others.

I'm not schizoid, because I can smile, and deal with people well in person. I see social things as a chore but not as a problem.

I don't fear people or have social anxiety. I dislike people because they are mostly boring. They worry about pointless things. I feel superior most of the time and it can be tiring to dumb it down for so long.

This sounds harsh and I usually don't say anything like that, even if pressed. I'd never let anyone in my real life, or who knew me, know that I think that way of them.

No point.

I've also read a lot about the "women-borderline, men-antisocial" thing. and I disagree. I think that men get caught, more often, because they are more violent/physical. I think that most studies on us are carried out by police or criminal law professionals, and of course those sort of studies will not have many female subjects.

I think women with aspd are just less visible. Harder to believe in. Like an evil unicorn

here's the thing about the callousness. I can either be completely honest and say that I do not care, or I can care about how someone will react and tell them I care. It's up to the people I speak with here, whether they want my honesty and diretness or my kindness. I reserve most of my callous meanness for my own threads about my own internal feelings.

I don't need to go out of my way to be unkind. I know how to "play human". I've managed to live to my 30s without ever having been arrested, forced into rehab or psychological therapy, or any other form of getting "caught". Why would it be so difficult to put on the same kind front here?

I guess it is hard sometimes especially here, to be playing the game of feelings. because I am here to learn to change some things about myself, and to be honest...something I rarely do, about myself.

If I am going to be open and honest and vulnerable, I can't pretend to be caring. If I lie, I'm kind but not real. I go back and forth as the situation demands. I do not want to hurt anyone here or lose the resource of posting here. So I have personal, selfish motivation for being polite and friendly.

If I want something or can get something out of it, I won't endanger that thing.

Does this make any sense? Clarify anything for you?

I can like people but if they want to confront me or "catch" me, I drop them. I don't really rely on social things for my vision of myself. What other people think doesn't matter enough to me to give me social anxiety.

Hope that helps some.

edit: social things are a chore I avoid, the same way I avoid doing the dishes.
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Old 08-06-08, 04:56 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Thanks reesah, it is good to see that I was close.

Back to the subject of BPD in males for a second and trashing some potential stereotypes of ASPD, I took a Victimology class a couple of years ago and a lot of stalkers and serial killers really weren't psychopaths at all, a lot of their psychological profiles had BPD as an Axis II diagnosis. Martha Stout has a statistic that 1 in 25 people are sociopathic and provided examples of many different types that people would have no idea.

I think it is a good thing that you deal with the ASPD issue and have insight into it because in one of my classes, I think it was someting in connection to senescence, it was said that elderly people who had ASPD are usually miserable because during that stage of development they reflect back on their whole life and regret it. Man, just thinking about that makes me kind of teary.
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Old 08-07-08, 04:56 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

I doubt I will regret traveling all over the united states, hiking the appalachian and the pacific coast alone, creating hundreds of well-known works of popular art, contributing to my field, petting my dogs, gardening.

It's all about what you value. I'm sure that there are sociopaths out there who value human connection, and that they would be sad at the end of their life to be alone. I am lucky not to be one of those people.

The books I have read, the adventures I have had...I don't see myself ever regretting those or being sad that I didn't live a more standard life. It's been a colossal and interesting experiment, living, so far.
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Old 08-07-08, 11:27 PM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Quote:
I'm also interested in the interplay between social anxiety/avoidance and ASPD, if there is one.
If I am reading this right people with social anxiety and ASPD may both avoid socialization but for very different reasons. To the ASPD it is a chore that is done only if necessary to obtain a desired goal - there isn't fear though

With anxiety - socialization isn't necessarily unpleasant the anxiety caused by it is . . . some one with social anxiety will avoid socialization even if there is some huge benefit to the interaction


Wow I am in the middle - I am not anxious some socialization is a chore while some is pleasant - I do not necessarily have to be fulfilling a goal either but I often feel no connection to others a portion of me can't - it isn't there. Stressful situations are almost like watching ones self on TV.

I have a high degree of indifference but I can be empathetic - it is kin to MPD - multiple personality disorder in that my personality is fractured to a certain extent. Because I have been this way a long time I have learned how to make it appear as if it is all "together" {lack of a better term}

I have what is called depersonalization personality disorder - I am high functioning and it isn't detectable even in person It is actually more detectable here - it is this "split" that allows me to both debate passionately in a discussion and moderate it at the same time. It is as if meadd823 the moderator and meadd823 the member are two separate people sharing one brain - what makes me different than people with MPD is I have fluid conscious memory of my life events however I tend not to personalize memories or experiences I remember them as if they are happening to some one else. I often experience social situations in the same manner - hence my lack of actual emotional connection in many instances.

To socialize I position myself so that what is happening appears normal to those around me My husband isn't even aware of when it is happening and he knows about my personality disorder. To him I seem to handle social stressors extremely well, I don't get upset in circumstance where most would . . It is like having the ability to be empathic and indifferent at the same time. Because I have an easy going temperament by nature I experience a lot of indifference to social critique - I am accepting as a matter of personality

Although I enjoy some people immensity a vast majority of people I find to basically be a waste of my time and energy. Most people are all about them selves and only believe them selves to give a damn about others . . . a vast majority of folks I see as playing the human interaction game so I perceive most socialization as plastic reality{hence my disorder} .

What emotions I do feel are along the lines of mild irritation at many people's inability to "get it", most people don't want to but they are unable to see that they don't want to. In my reality of humanity isn't very interested in understanding any thing that will shatter their personal perception unless forced although many will pretend to understand only if it serves their purpose.

Most people are so busy promoting their own point if view they are not really interested in any one else's,so why bothering to give a damn.Most folks feel threatened by the idea that not every one lives in the same reality they do - which is why they are easily upset by an opposing points of view

Having two realities exist at the same time I believe makes me more able handle other peoples differences more easily. . . . .

I have seen no advantage to changing this "split" so I haven't. Not many people can see both sides of the coin at the same time. Indifference in temperament serves a very good purpose in that I tend not to take things personally however I am able to still be empathetic simentiounsly - it is confusing to explain. I experience depersonalization very differently than most because the differences in reality run concurrently - that isn't supposed to happen {oops} I was sent to some high flootin specialist for diagnosis. . . . .
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Last edited by meadd823; 08-08-08 at 12:43 AM.. Reason: this sucks to try and explain
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Old 08-08-08, 03:22 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by reesah View Post
I doubt I will regret traveling all over the united states, hiking the appalachian and the pacific coast alone, creating hundreds of well-known works of popular art, contributing to my field, petting my dogs, gardening.

It's all about what you value. I'm sure that there are sociopaths out there who value human connection, and that they would be sad at the end of their life to be alone. I am lucky not to be one of those people.

The books I have read, the adventures I have had...I don't see myself ever regretting those or being sad that I didn't live a more standard life. It's been a colossal and interesting experiment, living, so far.
If you've created hundreds of well-known works of popular art, well, you know what I want to say but I'm trying my hardest to hold back. Hint: the word starts with "j" and ends with a "y"

The other "adventures" you've had spark the same thing.

So, I find myself saying, if I created hundreds of works of well-known popular art, I would definitely no longer consider myself an underachiever.
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Old 08-08-08, 03:28 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

yeah it's nice and all. but you don't get royalties on what I do. so...


underachiever, 36, done all those things and still living in a slumlord's crappy apartment, making just enough to live paycheck to paycheck... no car at the moment... none of the appurtenances of living well. and no motivation or ambition to get them,either.

For all I've done, I don't have much to show for it.





oh and don't worry batman, you can say it to me. I'm not that easily bothered...and terrible at riddles
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Old 08-08-08, 03:59 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

In fact what you seem to have done would be my goal. I have an idiosyncratic talent with art. As in, I can do specific/narrow kinds of art pretty well, but in an unorthodox way... and learning problems mean I can't learn anything too difficult. As in, I cannot learn spatial relations, perspective, and I can't do anything 3-d (as in sculpture.)

I mean, despite your lack of modern amenities, I can tell you if I did what you did, I would be a happy person. Unfortunately, it is clear that I don't have the talent that you have, and never will.
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Old 08-08-08, 10:46 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Maybe reesah just found a niche you haven't. Isn't this the aspd thread????? Sorry I am trying not to give you any helpful advice on your underachiever thread - I am decided to just moderate it which is why I got concerned over my confusion here

Okay pill and nap time for me

nite
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Old 08-09-08, 02:40 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

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In fact what you seem to have done would be my goal. I have an idiosyncratic talent with art. As in, I can do specific/narrow kinds of art pretty well, but in an unorthodox way... and learning problems mean I can't learn anything too difficult. As in, I cannot learn spatial relations, perspective, and I can't do anything 3-d (as in sculpture.)

I mean, despite your lack of modern amenities, I can tell you if I did what you did, I would be a happy person. Unfortunately, it is clear that I don't have the talent that you have, and never will.

I also fail miserably at sculpture and most other forms of art. I am a specialist. I work on what I like, the way I like. I have been lucky to find my niche, that's exactly what it is.

I am a happy person. I do things I like and almost nothing I dislike.
I'm not sure how it is clear that I have talent that you do not- I have never posted my work or anything personal to me on this website. You have no idea what I do, what I am capable of or terrible at. You make assumptions which are reflecting negatively on yourself, for no reason and without evidence.


If you think you do not have talent, who am I to argue with you?


Why are you arguing against yourself? You should be defending yourself, arguing in favor of your own talent (no matter how limited)

Nobody else in the world is going to fight FOR you. You have to be your own defender, knight in shining armor. The world does not care about any of us, at all. It's up to you to find what you like and do it.
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Old 08-09-08, 06:25 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

Quote:
You make assumptions which are reflecting negatively on yourself, for no reason and without evidence.
I noticed this too . . .

My job is pretty mindless some times meaning I can be doing one thing while thinking about another - oddly enough I can often pull up discussions here - thing I read and do not understand - there are a lot of emotional reactions I do not relate to but I am expected to react appropriately when confronted with them . . . I hate boredom so I have to learn how to understand them much like one would the working of a car or computer but with a mathematical twist

Your behavior is interesting to me because it is not typical - you do not fit the typical troll criteria, you say you are AS but your pattern isn't even typical for AS although you do possess many of the Auspie traits - one of your not so common traits which doesn't fall into any behavior pattern I am familiar with is your jealously - I have run a decent analysis of what you claim causes envy - Basically any one not you can cause it but you act like you are jealous of any one who is working at a job they are successful in or attending school successfully. You envy success . . . . after the underachiever thread I decided offering practical advice was counter productive because it failed to meet it's intended out come so I simply switched directions - I feel nothing it is mere trial and error and analysis of observations.



See I do not understand holding to any emotional state does not serve a functional purpose - based upon my limited understanding I believe being antisocial is more pleasant that what you are going though.

Emotion to me are a tool they serve me not the other way around. Anger lets me know when a personal boundary has been violated , frustration is alarming me to the fact life isn't going as I planned so there a need to change plans Pleasure well that should be self explanatory but I do tend to do those things I find pleasurable while avoiding those I do not like

I let go of the emotion the minute it serves it purpose. I do not hang onto them . . . . to me my emotions exist to serve me not the other way around

I am not "typical" I do not experience emotions as most do not. I hold no perceived notions of how people should be


I am like totally unable to understand why you are jealous of any one who is not you - Why do this??? Your behavior indicates you are not enjoying so I am guessing it is not pleasure driven . . . Is it helping you to survive does it allow you to be what you feel you need to be in order to gain what is necessary to function???

I figure if I could be any one in the world I might as well be me I am used to it and I do not think my life is any worse off than the next guys and it is better than some. If I don't like it I can change it . .. I have things I do not like about my behavior and I have things I do not like about my physical appearances so I understand disliking but only if it helps me improve my behavior so that it is more useful and / or I am more productive, comfortable or entertained - if my unhappiness in my appearance reminds me to baths and brush my hair then the emotion has served it's purpose -after which it is immediately discarded



If the same question were posed to you –

If you could any one n the world according to your posted feeling you would rather be just about any one else in the world but you - is this accurate???

I know what it is like to be me - I mostly feel okay with periods of pleasant and unpleasant experiences and sensations . . . .


ASPD is like ADD and AS - it come attached to a person with a temperament, a personality and a past.

Quote:
Nobody else in the world is going to fight FOR you. You have to be your own defender, knight in shining armor. The world does not care about any of us, at all. It's up to you to find what you like and do it.
I know that's right - people don't give a damn about any one else but them selves.

Some folks will even come along kick you while you are down because it makes them feel powerful and strong. . .


I am falling asleep at my computer so time to call it a night - I didn't even get through all my PMs - oh well tomorrow is another day
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Last edited by meadd823; 08-09-08 at 07:06 AM.. Reason: too damn long geez
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Old 08-10-08, 04:49 AM
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Re: What's ASPD like?

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Your behavior is interesting to me because it is not typical - you do not fit the typical troll criteria, you say you are AS but your pattern isn't even typical for AS although you do possess many of the Auspie traits - one of your not so common traits which doesn't fall into any behavior pattern I am familiar with is your jealously -
That's why I have changed my self-dx of AS to simply saying "I have some AS traits." There are quite a few ways in which I deviate from AS tendencies.

The reactive jealousy issue is one that doesn't seem to fit AS well at all. However, there are also many ways in which I do have AS characteristics. And for a long time, I thought that maybe having poor math skills, not being gifted, poor logical thinking might be indicative that I'm not AS... but further research on this suggests these are stereotypes that only apply to some AS people.

And whether or not I have AS, how can you tell my pattern isn't typical of it... AS people, just like ADD people, can have comorbids that muddle the situation a bit. I am not trying to be snide, it's just that I prefer to take people at face value on some things.
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