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Old 05-09-09, 08:22 AM
nzkiwi nzkiwi is offline
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testosterone levels

Anyone with inattentive adhd had their testosterone levels checked?

I had mine done and it came back low. My testosterone came back 30 pg/ml, and the range for someone my age is 44-148 pg/ml. I was just wondering if low testosterone could be a contributing factor in adhd-inattentive. Even as a child I had inattentive symptoms. As an adult I have had inattentive symptoms + anxiety.

Maybee I should have posted this in the anxiety section of the forum.
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Old 05-09-09, 01:59 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

I'm a guy and my testosterone levels were under 100 for a few months and I have been going to many doctors to try to get this resolved.

At the same time I got diagnosed with ADD and have been using Adderall and haven't had TOO much impovement with reading/focusing.

I am very curisous if low Testosterone is playing a big factor in this or not, I think this is a very important questions
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Old 05-09-09, 06:46 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

I'm 33 and had mine checked after researching the symptoms of low T. Sure enough, there were the symptoms I'd been treated for for the last decade. I asked my p-doc for a T test. The "normal range" at this particular lab was 300-1200ng/dl. I came back 314, which is ridiculous for someone who is at the gym 5 days a week and eats healthy. He agreed it could be causing many of my problems but prescribing anything for it was out of his hands. I needed to see an Internal Medicine doc.

I picked one locally who was my age and would maybe have some sympathy to my situation. At first, he was very sympathetic, stating that although my numbers were within range, that they were awfully low for an active 33 year old w/ a good diet. From that point on, he kept pushing this sleep apnea thing on me like he was making money off it. I had my tonsils removed 6 months ago and it has apparently eliminated my snoring and I wake up easier. He insisted I get another T lab test done & a sleep study before coming to the conclusion that I need TRT, which he'd have no problem prescribing. So I have complied so far. My 2nd lab tests came back 312...lower than before. He has his nurse call me & say that all my results were "normal and shouldn't be causing any problems". So, in typical hypocritical fashion, he admits that 314 is low, yet now 312 is normal? The nurse goes on to say that he blames my levels (keep in mind they are now "normal" now) on sleep apnea or Dexedrine?! It has not even been determined that I have sleep apnea, and stimulants are the only thing that have given me a healthy sex drive or energy in 10 years...Yet they are causing my supposed low, whoops, I mean "normal levels" of Testosterone.

Most doctors I see I feel I already am a step ahead of them because I have thoroughly researched what I'm going in for before I see them. But this guy pushed this sleep apnea thing on me like a bulldozer. I do not snore, I do not wake up during sleep, and I don't sleep for 10 hours at a crack. I feel as if he may be getting kickbacks from the company that sells these sleep apnea breathing machines. The proof is in the T numbers and he ignores them. If I had a more middle range result instead of borderline deficient than I feel that I would not need stimulants for horrendous memory & concentration, low energy levels, and virtually no libido.

Low Testosterone levels can easily cause or be mistaken for Inattentive ADD, depression, & anxiety.

http://www.isitlowt.com/

http://www.menshealthnetwork.org/tim...stosterone.htm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Symptoms-O...rops&id=155856

http://www.mens-hormonal-health.com/...ne-levels.html
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Old 05-10-09, 08:31 AM
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Re: testosterone levels

The reason I had my levels checked was because of Anxiety,low energy, low libido, memory, etc.

I think many doctors try to steer away from using testosterone therapy. Perhaps many doctors are worried that testosterone therapy may cause prostate cancer(unknown risks), even though their is no evidence that it does. Perhaps it's an insurance thing; With all the lab work prior to treatment and during treatment it may get expensive. Who knows.

I would say getting a referall to an endo would be the way to go.
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Old 05-10-09, 08:34 AM
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Re: testosterone levels

One more Question. I wonder if stimulants lower testosterone over the long term?
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Old 05-12-09, 03:33 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

I was tested for testosterone after trying stimulants and the test was low. I was prescribed a testosterone gel that you apply to your skin. I didn't notice an improvment in my attentiveness, but my wife claims she does. I used it sporaticaly, and then the prescription ran out. I didn't follow up with the doctor because we had moved and I have yet to find a new one. I was thinking of following up with an endocrinologists, since I have read that the test usually given does not give the full picture and the normal range varies between people.
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Old 05-13-09, 12:48 AM
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Re: testosterone levels

"Normal levels." Normal for who? Normal for people. Just like clothes and shoes. All my shirts are too short and pants too long. Gloves need to be somewhere in between large and medium (large palm, medium fingers). My shoes need a rather high instep to support my arch but not too high or it will cause cramping. Normal. Most everything in this world is made for "normal" people, not you.

I have suspected I have a testosterone/androgen problem for decades. I see my new doc in a couple days. I will ask for a t test, thyroid test. It is about time. None of the (3) ADD meds I've tried so far have worked squat.
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Old 05-17-09, 12:00 AM
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Re: testosterone levels

Everyone should take a read and listen to this

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=220\

I was turned onto the idea after hearing it on the radio. I've never had endurance, or energy for sports, I either have the inattentive type of ADD or it's the low T. Never could focus for school, work sucks, math skills, higher processing skills almost non existent, I know anxiety blocks those abilities too but higher testosterone could help. I'm 27 without ever having a girlfriend, have libido with coffee. Low T can be dangerous as well, heart disease. I feel that I'll have heart disease soon if I don't get my T looked into. Can anyone say how much it cost to have T levels checked? My female friend had a case of high T and she spent about $500 to have tests run.

Glad this is getting some exposure, I'm fairly certain I have low T.

I have this fantasy that If I do get on T meds, I have to choose a sport that I'll commit to 5 hours a week cuz I'll be driven to play that sport well. I do not want to accidently strike up a conversation about knitting as I could get stuck with that!

I'm going to miss being more sensitive and in tune with art though, testosterone will block most of that.

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Old 05-17-09, 01:25 AM
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Re: testosterone levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDSanFrancisco View Post
Everyone should take a read and listen to this

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=220\

I was turned onto the idea after hearing it on the radio. I've never had endurance, or energy for sports, I either have the inattentive type of ADD or it's the low T. Never could focus for school, work sucks, math skills, higher processing skills almost non existent, I know anxiety blocks those abilities too but higher testosterone could help. I'm 27 without ever having a girlfriend, have libido with coffee. Low T can be dangerous as well, heart disease. I feel that I'll have heart disease soon if I don't get my T looked into. Can anyone say how much it cost to have T levels checked? My female friend had a case of high T and she spent about $500 to have tests run.

Glad this is getting some exposure, I'm fairly certain I have low T.

I have this fantasy that If I do get on T meds, I have to choose a sport that I'll commit to 5 hours a week cuz I'll be driven to play that sport well. I do not want to accidently strike up a conversation about knitting as I could get stuck with that!

I'm going to miss being more sensitive and in tune with art though, testosterone will block most of that.

I'm downloading your link as we speak. I feel the need to respond to a few things you said/asked.

The cost of getting a T blood test done depends on a multitude of factors. Firstly, whether or not you have insurance. Also, whether it is a simple Total Testosterone check or if it's a check for total, free, leutenizing hormone, and follicle stimulating hormone. I received my EOB stating the costs for both tests & my responsibility ($0) but I tossed them, so I can't give you an exact cost. You can ask the Health Center what it would run for such tests before you have them done.

As for losing your ability to appreciate art, I wouldn't assume that would happen just because you suspect you have low T and replacement therapy would erase it. Appreciation for something that is well done doesn't exactly disappear with higher levels of testosterone. Although what sort of art initially strikes your interest may change.

Testosterone is a powerful hormone and plays a role in many more things than a simple interest in sex or athletic abilities. It contributes to efficient cognition, self-confidence, assertiveness, concentration, the dampening of anxiety, motivation, mental clarity, and overall well-being. The fact that my internal medicine doc brushes me off simply because I still barely fell within "normal" range still boils my blood. My psychiatrist thought it was total BS as well and promptly referred me to an Endocrinologist.

I don't want inhuman levels of T. I want at least middle range to see if it improves my anxiety, concentration, mental clarity, and libido/sexual function. Some docs won't give a sh*t about your emotional state or quality of life. They think that as long as you're within range, then you should have no symptoms whatsoever. The good ones DO care about what you want, and as long as it's within reason, are willing to help as much as they can.
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Old 05-17-09, 01:38 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADDSanFrancisco View Post
Everyone should take a read and listen to this

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=220\

The link you have takes you to the newest episode, but I think you wanted the about testosterone that aired Feb 22, 2008. Good show, btw. The person with the highest testosterone was really a shocker! Not what one normally thinks of as having a high testosterone.
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Old 05-17-09, 05:03 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

Ha yeah...I listened to the one about "Reuniting" & the cloned bull and was wondering when the word "Testosterone" was going to come up. Never did.

The correct one was a really entertaining listen. I found myself relating quite a bit to the first guy.
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Old 05-18-09, 02:40 AM
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Re: testosterone levels

Testosterone is a very important hormone, and obviously you want levels within normal ranges. To low and you'll have problems with general metabolism(energy, weight gain, libido, memory, etc), to high and you'll have side effects(raging libido, acne, lowered HDL, aggressiveness, prostate problems, etc).

Testosterone levels do decline with age, but that is not the same thing as having low levels for someone in your age group(hypogonadism).

I think a concern of many doctors is the long term risks of testosterone therapy. Because little research is available on long term treatment, doctors are just plain scared, especially after the the studies that came out regarding women and hrt(cancer).
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Old 05-18-09, 07:49 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

Wow, I'm so glad you are all discussing this!!

Sorry to be the only hen in the barnyard of roosters....but I observed what seemed to be this phenomenon a long time ago, from talking to the partners of men with ADHD. I often asked if testosterone levels had been checked, and if they had been, they were always low! Then more people started checking, and they were low, too! And it wasn't just the inattentive subtype.

There's a good book, "The Male Biological Clock," that addresses some of these issues. This doc is a fan of testosterone supplementation. I don't know...hormones are powerful things, and once you start supplementing, you can start losing endogenous (locally made) testosterone. Still, it's worth exploring.,

As to whether some guys with ADHD could be low testosterone (or does the low testosterone cause ADHD-like symptoms), I'm afraid no one is studying this -- because I've asked every likely expert. Our medical system is so specialized, with so little cross-disciplinary research.

I even asked endocrinologists, and they didn't even understand that the brain controls, to a large extent, the production of hormones in the rest of the body. I mean, it was crazy -- as if the head wasn't connected to the body. How do these guys get out of med school? It's frightening!

I guess a neuroendocrinologist would be the way to go.

Anyway, when I was digging around for answers, I came up with a few theories based on these premises:

1. Males (including male primates) who are in "one-down" positions often have lower testosterone as a result. Testosterone raises when they achieve more dominance. Plenty of people with untreated late-diagnosis ADHD feel "one down" -- and have for many years.

2. Back to the brain controlling hormones. Sleep is so important for the productions of hormones. Many pwADHD do not get good sleep!

3. ADHD brain patterns mean that all kinds of messages are slow to travel or get "corrupted in transmission." So, what about the signals that initiate hormone production, release, etc.? Makes sense that those messages could get corrupted, too, or end up in the dead-letter office.

I'll have to dig around in my notes....seems at least one researcher felt I was onto something. I do think this is an important topic.

Oh, this is probably something Dr. Charles Parker has addressed in his blog. And if he hasn't, maybe someone could write and ask him to.

http://www.Corepsychblog.com

best,
Gina


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Old 05-18-09, 07:54 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

P.S. I heard that This American Life Show. Great episode.

They also did one a few years ago (i think it was this show) on a woman transitioning to being male. Two things in particular she noticed when she started the testosterone:

1. She couldn't cry as easily to relieve frustration, hurt, etc.
2. She became a math whiz.

g
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Old 05-18-09, 07:57 PM
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Re: testosterone levels

P.P.S. I checked Dr. Parker's website... he does consulting remotely and has a hormone/metabolic test you can mail in.

FYI -- I am not an associate of Dr. Parker's. I am just a fan of his blog, because he does the "holistic" thing about ADHD and other diagnoses so well, IMHO.
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