new here-I think my son has add-adhd inattentive

[mannersme]

As his Mum, I have always suspected my son was not "normal" (hate the word normal but only word I can think to use) but dyslexia tests aged 6 came back negative and he didnt really seem to fit into the "typical" adhd bracket, It is only recently I have found infornation regarding add (adhd inattentive) and finally I think I have found a name for what I suspect he suffers, As a younger child I would say he displayed some signs of the `hyperactive` adhd but not to a point were it was impairing,Hence the reason why I dismissed adhd, just noticiable signs in situations like when we had visitors with children or parties etc, were he just couldnt seem to stop poking/prodding/grabbing others regardless of having timeout or being told over and over, and occasional outbursts of anger that he seemed to have no control over and left him exhausted, also he wasn`t `allowed`to play on the playground 90 % of the time, at lunch and play times as the school had little control over his actions at these times.

As hes got older he displays in my eyes more and more signs of add, And having recently started secondary school, Were he is obviously expected to be more independant, He seems to be struggling enormously.

He is very forgetful and never brings home books or homework, If he does bring it home and i attempt to help, It will always end with him ripping up his work etc, Many days he will have a period of time were he pulls down his blind and just lies on his bed in the dark, but wide awake, staring into space, the only explanation he has for this is that it makes him feel happy, His reading/writting is at far below the average for his age, school have offered him extra help but said "he is unwilling to make the effort to learn" or "is more concerned with getting out of the work than attempting it" etc etc one even commented that he can spend an entire lesson making a see-saw with a rubber and ruler,His school reports have never been very good either, If there is any hope of getting him out the door for school I have to folow him around constantly repeatin what he needs to do, ie; socks on, teeth cleaned etc. I know all children are at times scatty and lazy but I believe it goes deeper than that and dont know were to turn.

With regards to friends he has some but doesnt seem to fit in with other kids in his class, He tends to have `one` friend at a time and gets really upset if they play with or even talk to other kids, Prefers to spend much of his time alone on his ps3 and the only part of his bedroom that is even remotely organised is his masses of completed lego sets.

As a mum its heart breaking that he just seems so lonely, Rarely gets called for and so often seemed to be the only child that wasnt invited to so and so party, he will have a note saying homework but has no idea what it is or when it needs to be handed in, will tell me he has a message about school trips etc but cannot recall what it is he needs to tell me, He now appears to realise he is not like `all the other kids`and says things like "i know im thick" or "i wish i wasn`t stupid" and regardless of me pointing out positives he has such little self esteem, On a recent school sheet were he had to describe his inner and outer self he labelled his outer self; short, big ears and ugly. his inner self; Nasty, angry and stupid. Which tore my heart in 2, He is frequently in detention for bein late/forgetting pe kit etc and I feel his struggles are only goin to get worse the older he gets.

I`m sorry for this very very long post and appreciate anyone who has read it in full, I would also appreciate any advice with regards to where to turn next or wether he is just a typical pre teen etc.

Also I was wondering if there are any other signs other than the common symptoms, that seem to go hand in hand with add, eg; My son was a very late speaker and is a poor eater.
Many thanks in advance for any help.

[mannersme]

Sorry forgot to add that he is 11.

[Vickie]

Welcome mannersme,

This can be a very difficult journey and it is so hard to watch your child suffer and feel that you cannot help then through it.

Your location is listed as "derbyshire" so I take it you are in the UK? It is not as easy to get ADHD help in the UK, but hopefully other posters will help guide you through.

I hate the word normal as well. I prefer the word neurotypical (NT) for those who fall in the large and variable range of "normal".

[Zoom Dude]

I realize you might be hesitant to diagnose something you don't fully understand, but wow - almost everything you describe rang a bell for both me and my son (both ADD-inattentive). A genuine diagnosis can only come from a professional, but I would just about bet my house that you are correct.

As hard as this is for you, it will be harder because you are in the UK. I've never lived there, but through reading the posts of others who do I sense that ADD is seen there as some kind of myth. I don't know if this is cultural, borne of the education and/or health care systems, medical training or what. You will likely have an uphill battle.

My advice is to seek out local ADD support groups for guidance. Learn from the frustrations of others. Only see medical professionals who have demonstrated an openness regarding the existence and diagnosis of ADD. Get referrals from ADDers who've had good experiences. This forum is a terrific source of information and support. For example:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=98

Your child will probably never lead what most would consider a "normal" life. That does not mean he can't live the wonderfully fulfilling life he deserves. We all have burdens and gifts. His set him apart. They will guide him on a different path, but he can be a fully functioning and happy member of society.

With a perceptive mom like you he'll have a big advantage. Above all - read up, be open to learning from others, but trust what you know. You will be surprised, even shocked, by the gibberish some professionals tell you.

Best of luck,

ZD

[mannersme]

thanks for your reply, I am aware of the poor support for adhd in the uk, Which I think is due to the stigma attached to it over here, You say `adhd` and anyone in earshot will say "someone who cant control their kids" or worse still "there after extra financial benefits"
I have often told his primary school that he I dont feel he is just `naughty` or `unmotivated`and have supported them in everyway when trouble with behaviour/unfinished work has been bought to my attention. I`ll keep checking for further posts, thanks again x

[mannersme]

thanks zoom dude, A post from someone who has experienced add as both a sufferer and a parent was just what I needed.
The stigma attached to adhd within the uk makes it so hard to make people listen, Its seen not as an illness but more a label, used by parents who have no control of their kids.

I however am not looking for a label to brand my son, But if he does have add-inattentive (which as a mum I think you just KNOW) a diagnosis would mean I could ask for small changes to be made to make his life a little easier,having homework assignments e-mailed to me and being able to discuss his progress more often for example would make the world of difference, Much of his frustration comes from trying to explain things to me that I have no idea about with regards school assignments. He is a poor achiever academically and the gap between him and his peers will only widen if I am unable to communicate with his teachers often.

I dont want to `mould` him into the normal stereotypical kid, but as you said help become a happy member of society.
In your experience other than the "classic symptoms" are there other characteristics that seem to run hand in hand with add-i.

My boy was a late speaker and also a fussy and very poor eater, just curious as to wether this coincidence.
Thanks again for your lovely post x

[MGDAD]

Sounds a lot like innattentive ADHD. The poking and prodding/annoying other kids is a way to get stimulated from their reactions. The innability to remember to do things, being unorganized, etc. is a problem with "working memory" which is one of the "Executive Functions." You should also read up on the 30% rule. Best thing you can do is to read up so you can better understand and help your child.

Good luck with everything.

I wonder why so many of these kids are poor eaters. Hmmm.

[mannersme]

Is the poor eating a general complaint with parents off add children?

Just googled 30% rule and found some really good links, As someone else said the uk appears ignorant/uneducated on adhd, which is probably why I am struggling when using google.co.uk to find any useful info, If anyone has any links or books they could recommend it would be very appreciated.

As they say knowledge is power and anything that will either make his school listen more to my concerns, or more importantly help me have a better understanding would obviously be greatly received.

The more I read the more I feel my gut instinct has been right all along, But makes me feel guilty as well, when I think of how many times I`ve said "pay attention" "wakey, wakey" "start paying attention" etc etc etc.

[Trooper Keith]

Be very careful about making up your mind before you've looked at alternatives. This could just as easily be (and in fact in my opinion is far more likely to be) depression rather than ADHD-PI. You're describing some symptoms of depression. Irritability, distractibility, lack of energy, anhedonia, low self esteem, frustration at himself/ feelings of worthlessness, loss of appetite, etc.

Describing himself as "nasty, angry, and stupid" is not a symptom of ADHD. It's a classic symptom of depression.

Poor socialization is not a symptom of ADHD (though it doesn't rule it out). It's a symptom of depression.

Lack of interest in things can go both ways. The lying on the bed thing certainly sounds like depressive behavior, lack of interest in things, etc.

Irritability and anger is often associated with juvenile depression, because children with depression often can't express how they feel in normal ways.

Loss of appetite is not a symptom of ADHD, but it is a symptom of depression. Poor eating is only really associated with ADHD when the child is taking stimulants.

I dunno. Sounds more like depression than ADHD-PI to me. Which is a good thing! Depression has a much, much better prognosis.

Edit: violently acting out on the playground and such is also symptomatic of early depression, for the same reason I mentioned before: children don't have other ways to express their emotions. In this case I'm not willing to say it's a symptom at all. Could just be misbehavior.

Notably, however, the fact that he did have symptoms like that goes against a diagnosis of ADHD-PI, which according to Russell Barkley shouldn't show any of those symptoms at all.

The "poking and prodding others" thing is not only not a symptom of ADHD-PI, it actually goes against the diagnosis.

[Trooper Keith]

Originally Posted by MGDAD

You should also read up on the 30% rule.

I was under the impression this applies primarily to ADHD-C/ADHD-PHI, and not so much to ADHD-PI, which Barkley admits we don't know much about? I could be off base, the most recent thing I read regarding the 30% rule was from a lecture in 2000, which is talking about ADHD-C, and not ADHD-PI. It was talking specifically about the degree of impairment in self-control and inhibition. Children with ADHD-PI don't have any problems with self-control or inhibition.

[mannersme]

Thanks for your input, I did state that i`m certainly not an expert just seemed add-i seemed to describe him best, I will certainly look into depression, I had already done a little research into anxiety.

His irritabilty and anger are something that have been present from being around 3-4 about the time he started nursery, Losing his appetite is not a recent problem either he has always as far as my mind goes back ate very little.

To be honest it never really occured to me that children of his age could actually suffer depression, Maybe this is with me being british perhaps, We brits tend to dismiss any mental illness in our youngsters, as oppose to americans who tend to have their own therapists before they hit there teens, But surely this means that masses of british kids are suffering in silence and american kids are bought up to believe that being ill is `the norm` surely theres a happy medium? (this is not meant to cause offence in any way,just merely my own observations)
Thanks again for your response x

[MGDAD]

I thought it applied to all forms of ADHD, although I dont have a specific reference to that. However, I also have two ADHD-PI's and the rule is very accurate for both of them.

While some of those symptoms may relate to depression and/or anxiety, it is shown that ADHD can contribute to/ or even cause ones depression and/or anxiety.

"Poking and prodding goes against the diagnosis" Huh?

[Trooper Keith]

Originally Posted by MGDAD

I also have two ADHD-PI's and the rule is very accurate for both of them.

When you refer to the 30% rule, then, with people with ADHD-PI, are you talking about functioning with a 30% impairment in...what, then? Attention? Academic performance?

Originally Posted by MGDAD

"Poking and prodding goes against the diagnosis" Huh?

Children with ADHD-PI aren't likely to be poking and prodding at their peers. They aren't likely to be interacting physically with their peers at all, and certainly not in a way so impulsive as to be poking, prodding, and grabbing them.

Originally Posted by Russell Barkley

Why do I think it’s a different disorder? Because these children come in with the opposite symptoms. Instead of being hyperactive, intrusive, distractable, they’re lethargic, slow-moving, hypoactive, spacey, daydreamy, quiet, passive, withdrawn, confused, in a fog. They are the polar opposite of the AD/HD child in their clinical presentation. This is not an impulsive, disruptive, intrusive, aggressive, emotional, naive child. This is a kid who is staring, daydreaming, confused, and not processing information accurately. This is a real attention deficit, if attention means information processing. These kids have a processing deficit. AD/HD children do not. Do not confuse these two groups. They do not have the same problems with paying attention.

[MGDAD]

Here is a list of ADHD-i symptoms that can be helpfull.

Could Your Child Have Inattentive ADHD?

1. Becomes overwhelmed easily; can only concentrate on one thing at a time. (actually it's more like I'm concentrating on everything that has to be done while I'm doing something... if I can do it).
2. Has trouble starting and/or finishing tasks (often forgets to do homework, family chores, or may take “forever” to finish homework).
3. May daydream while getting dressed in the morning; fixed stare may mask wandering mind.
4. Acts impulsively or may not appear to react at all; is not good at crisis management (detaches rather than takes action).
5. Is distracted by internal thoughts and external stimuli. (The brain can be on 16 channels, but the body appears exhausted.)
6. Has a lethargic and apathetic appearance (Even when the person thinks fast, he fatigues quickly.); is often called lazy and unmotivated.
7. Does not get needs met in the classroom because he or she doesn’t disrupt others; tends to be quiet, shy or withdrawn resulting in cognitive deficits getting overlooked.
8. Could have spatial and/or motor skill difficulties (messy handwriting, poor sense of direction, or coordination problems).
9. Could be on an emotional roller coaster (anxious, depressed, explosive temper, grumpy, sarcastic, rude, or abrupt).
10. Is unaware of time (either underestimates or overestimates time, but is usually late).
11. Appears disorganized (messy locker, room, and desk).
12. Spends time daily hunting for things such as keys, papers, books, purse, etc. Has social skills problems (may be quiet, withdrawn, or possibly shy; has trouble with small talk and figuring out rules of social interaction; has a problem reading social cues; tends to be lonely and aloof). Unfortunately, this passivity can cause the person to be an attractive target for bullies.
13. Does not perform up to potential; is slow at processing; appears confused or stressed; has difficulty with synthesizing and organizing ideas; is slow responding to questions.
14. Has to be repeatedly rescued; uses learned helplessness and passive manipulation; feels powerless; becomes chronically dependent.
15. Has errors in logical thinking and/or has irrational thoughts.
16. Does not advocate for self; rarely asks questions in class or participates in class discussion.
17. Makes mediocre grades or all A’s if person is a perfectionist. May put in extra effort to hyperfocus in order to compensate for inattentiveness.
18. Has poor listening skills (misses details in conversations, teacher directions, and lectures).
19. Has short-term and working memory problems; has trouble with application of learned information.

[MGDAD]

It is Barkleys idea that ADHD-PI is a separate group, but he is one of the few that thinks so.

For the 30% rule I am talking about emotional maturity.