Need help to control my monkeymind!

[exparrot]

Hi everyone, I'm new here on the forum. I actually used to lurk around here to pick up information as I've come to a point where I think I have ADD, but what to do... I don't know. Here's some history:

As a child, the symptoms were not so important enough for me to even notice (it's not like an 8 year-old is on ADHD watch or something). My mom is a doctor (not a psychiatrist, but an OB/GYN and an internist) and she's always noticed that as a child I was always hyperactive (fidgeting alot) and inattentive. I didn't do poorly at school, but I wasn't the A student. I had a lot of tutoring sessions which didn't really help me. However, when my dad helped me out with my school work, I understood things better, perhaps because he's attune to my thinking style. Interestingly enough, when there was something academic that I was really interested in, I could actually do it and better than anyone else in my class, yet that could be due entirely to extrinsic/intrinsic motivation. I was never a messy student, I was neat, I did my homework, I sometimes got in trouble for not following the directions properly (not sure if that's a factor), otherwise nothing really out of the ordinary.

My real issues started in college. I started college part-time as I needed to work. I had to actually take a year and a half from school due to personal and financial reasons. When I started school again in 2006 (I was 20 years-old by then), I was a full-time student, but unfortunately I was still getting my act together and not quite serious, academically speaking. Again, I did not have any problems in presentability or turning in homework. I knew then I had a problem with inattentiveness, but I guess I didn't think too much of it. Thankfully, this summer I graduated magnum cum laude with an Associates of Science, I'm studying for my MCAT and taking additional classes. I plan to transfer to another institution to obtain my bachelors, but this problem with inattention is really getting to me. I just feel really angry at myself that I can't keep my mind under control for one minute, I have annoying and random thoughts pop into my head while I'm studying. When I'm not studying, but trying to focus my mind, I suffer from something I call the voice of nonsense trying to persuade me away from rationality. I sometimes cannot remember what was said to me a few mintues ago. I get really super eager to do something and I picture it in my head, I get carried away with that thought, but when it comes to actually doing it, it's like I've run out of steam or something. I feel like some sort of laziness or lethargy is set over me. Before going to bed each night, I make a promise to myself that tommorrow will be different. Some days it is different, and then half-way or not even a quarter-way through the day my thoughts get messed up. I get really down and depressed when these things happen. I've also been experiencing bouts of anxiety in regard to eye contact, a problem I never really had.

Spiritual prayer has helped me, but my fight with my mind, I don't know what to do. I don't like to think it's ADD. It's not that I feel a stigma, I've read the side affects of the medications and they scare me. I also don't like the thought of taking medications, especially these CNS stimulants. As I mentioned my academic pursuits earlier, I ultimately want to be a doctor, but a doctor with ADD?

I would really appreciate some advice. To all those with ADD, I'd like to know if it's possible that there could be mild forms of ADD, and if small dosages would be the key. Also would like to hear from who are in professional careers and suffer from ADD. My mom has mentioned Concerta, but I'm not so sure I want to take it. If medication is the way to go (not too fond of herbal remedies), then I would only take the least disturbing (at least in side affects) medication.

Thank you all!

[doublesided]

Hi there.

Well, I can't "diagnose" you, but suffice it to say that your symptoms are very indicative of ADD. I would talk to a professional of some sort to get properly diagnosed.

As for meds, I too was hesitant to try them. I put it off for almost 6 years until I felt that I had hit a wall and was ready to explore my options. Meds help a lot, but they are not a silver bullet. You'll also have to work on your habits and ways of thinking.

There's a lot of misinformation out there from many different groups regarding meds. A lot of the fear comes from the fact that stimulants are popular drugs of recreation and abuse. Taking them at therapeutic doses is not the same.

The nice part about CNS stimulants is that they're in and out of your system in a matter of hours, so if you try them and don't like them, you've lost nothing. If you do decide to try stimulants, I would recommend trying more than 1 type if the first type doesn't work. I had much better effects with amphetamines (eg: Adderall, Dexedrine, Vyvanse) than methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta), but for some people the opposite is true.

If you find that they don't help, then you can continue finding other methods of treatment, but at least you will have tried.

There's really no way to find out how you'll react without trying meds. The same is true for dosage, it's really a matter of trial and error.

I understand the feelings you are having, I think many of us diagnosed in our 20s can relate. For me, finally getting diagnosed was a way to understand many of my quirks, good and bad, and I'm happy I did it. Good luck, and I think you'll find a lot of helpful people on these boards.

[Alle]

Originally Posted by doublesided

The nice part about CNS stimulants is that they're in and out of your system in a matter of hours, so if you try them and don't like them, you've lost nothing.

Just because they are out of the body, doesn't mean that there is not lasting damage left in the brain from them. Even these "low doses".

"While previous studies show that acute amphetamine injections
can impair cognition, our report is the first to demonstrate
long lasting-over two years-and possibly permanent cognitive
deficits induced by a brief period of intermittent low-dose
amphetamine exposure," said Stacy Castner, a researcher on
the study." http://opa.yale.edu/news/article.asp...us=301&id=3486

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...e-to-brains.do

exparrot, if you want to know more about the drugs before you decide, you might be interested in this book that goes into the whole history of it. http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Many-Liv.../dp/0814776019

I hadn't realized before that amphetamines were "speed". Now I know that I have taken these stimulants before, as I snorted speed twice when I was a teenager. Nothing has ever taken away my ADD symptoms more then when I was on speed. I have never felt more clear minded, coherent, articulate, focused, calm, secure, or motivated. I didn't feel 'high' at all, or intoxicated in any way whatsoever. Just super clear in thought and all my senses were super sharp. I could probably write a novel in a week if I did that every night. However of course I didn't want to get 'into' any of that stuff. I guess that is another clue that I definitely probably have ADD, since the speed took away these symptoms.

[doublesided]

Wow, thanks for proving my point about fear-mongering.

First off, the Evening Standard is a typical alarmist (and sloppy) article, mentioning a rat study and then raising "possibilities" (classic weasel word) about stress, anxiety and depression. I can tell you right now that increased anxiety is a possible side effect of stimulants (including caffeine), but that doesn't mean it should be used to induce fear.

I've read a large part of "On Speed" and while it is interesting, it talks mainly about the history of amphetamine use in various cultures, and is not by any means a scientific book.

The Yale study is more interesting, but again, I don't think you can make the conclusions you have made from reading it.


A few points I noticed:

They say it's a low dose, but really it's 3 days at 0.1 mg/kg, 3 days at 0.2, 3 days at 0.3, etc. up to 3 days at 1.0 mg/kg. That's *10 times* the initial dose.

Just to put it in perspective, I take 10mg amphetamine, and I weigh 76kg. That's 0.132 mg/kg. Oh and I take it orally, so it takes about an hour to build up, and a sizeable chunk of it never reaches my bloodstream due to stomach conditions.

The primates in the study were injected, so that it immediately went into the bloodstream, and presumably 100% was absorbed. The highest dose given was roughly 10 times the lowest dose, and coupled with the fact that it was injected, I think you could say they were getting more than 10 times the amount, and immediately. So I'm not sure about calling that a "low dose".

I won't pretend to know a huge amount about this study, but those basic facts alone should raise some questions in your mind.

A similar claim is discussed at length in this thread:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70376

I recommend reading this article called "How to read articles about health and healthcare"
http://www.bazian.com/pdfs/HowToRead...03_26Nov08.pdf

[Alle]

Originally Posted by doublesided

Wow, thanks for proving my point about fear-mongering.

That's a very ignorant and closed minded term. They're just studies and just information. You can make of them what you want. To be anti information just because of how some people may react to the information is ridiculous. I can't control how the media reacts to the information and studies or how they present it, but they are still good to know about.

Originally Posted by doublesided

First off, the Evening Standard is a typical alarmist (and sloppy) article, mentioning a rat study and then raising "possibilities" (classic weasel word)

Most all studies only raise "possibilities". It's usually never 100%!

I've read a large part of "On Speed" and while it is interesting, it talks mainly about the history of amphetamine use in various cultures, and is not by any means a scientific book.

No it doesn't look like it is. It is a history book of it. Which should be interesting info to know about if you plan on spending the rest of your life on the substance. Well interesting for some people anyways, into history.

The primates in the study were injected, so that it immediately went into the bloodstream, and presumably 100% was absorbed. The highest dose given was roughly 10 times the lowest dose, and coupled with the fact that it was injected, I think you could say they were getting more than 10 times the amount, and immediately. So I'm not sure about calling that a "low dose".

There certainly needs to be more real human studies with the normal oral doses and tracking brain function over a long period of time. But the fact that it does have this effect and you don't know how little it takes, is something to think about, not to mention not knowing what the long term effects are.

A similar claim is discussed at length in this thread:
http://www.addforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70376

Thanks.

[exparrot]

Wow, incredible. I came to this forum to seek advice and some of you decide to use this post to discuss God-Knows-What... A thanks to double-sided for actually reading my post and giving me advice. I think the second poster didn't even read what I wrote and assumed something... I got a prescription for Concerta and got it filled. Hopefully, I will start it tomorrow and see how it fares me through my physics class and the rest of the day. I'll just say, its really sad, I registered on this forum to get something to help me figure out what's wrong with me. I see that 114 views were made on this post. 114 views doing what? I'm not angry, please don't be mistaken, but I really valued the information I found on this forum and I thought I could benefit by asking the seasoned ADD/ADHD veterans here a thing or two.

I don't want to come across juvenile by stating all this, so please, no one take offense.

[exparrot]

Please mods, I would like my account deleted

[dude102]

Originally Posted by exparrot

Wow, incredible. I came to this forum to seek advice and some of you decide to use this post to discuss God-Knows-What... A thanks to double-sided for actually reading my post and giving me advice. I think the second poster didn't even read what I wrote and assumed something... I got a prescription for Concerta and got it filled. Hopefully, I will start it tomorrow and see how it fares me through my physics class and the rest of the day. I'll just say, its really sad, I registered on this forum to get something to help me figure out what's wrong with me. I see that 114 views were made on this post. 114 views doing what? I'm not angry, please don't be mistaken, but I really valued the information I found on this forum and I thought I could benefit by asking the seasoned ADD/ADHD veterans here a thing or two.

I don't want to come across juvenile by stating all this, so please, no one take offense.

Nevermind.

[Kiddder]

....perhaps we should all try and concentrate on what we can affect control over....and we can learn to change ourselves but our monkey's mind sets are gonna have to be their monkey responsability and they will have to take ownership of their own monkey behavior....doesn't this belong on the animal planet forum? I mean my hands are full with analysis paralasis of myself and my monkey has his own issues. Maybe I tend to disregard the "meat" of the posts and focus on the thread titles too much......is that a co-morbid thing or just me? Am I off base just a little? Excuse me, bad monkey, get down......gotta run.....down monkey....down.....where's my monkey taser.....

[Alle]

Originally Posted by exparrot

Wow, incredible. I came to this forum to seek advice and some of you decide to use this post to discuss God-Knows-What... A thanks to double-sided for actually reading my post and giving me advice. I think the second poster didn't even read what I wrote and assumed something...

I didn't assume anything. You stated very clearly that you were unsure about medication because the side effects scare you. The information I shared was nothing but on point to that related topic. If you came only looking for ONE sided advice or opinions, then you should of stated that.

I'll just say, its really sad, I registered on this forum to get something to help me figure out what's wrong with me. I see that 114 views were made on this post. 114 views doing what? I'm not angry, please don't be mistaken, but I really valued the information I found on this forum and I thought I could benefit by asking the seasoned ADD/ADHD veterans here a thing or two.

You do sound angry, no offense. But if you came here with unrealistic expectations that every post or question you ask is going to get tons of replies that are exactly what you want to hear, then you're clearly going to be disappointed. Some posts get no responses or only 1 person responds. And also if you come to an open forum full of ADHD people and expect them to never go off on a tangent or hyper focus on a specific, you will again be disappointed. Sorry it didn't work out for you! I think your expectations of us were too high. My apologies!