Poll: Ideal Self

[crossroads]

Many people have a clear concept of an Ideal Self as a guideline, how they want to be. Being much like the ideal self makes those people feel good about themselves, perceiving big differences makes them suffer and are a strong intrinsic motivation for them to make efforts to improve themselves.

I like to ask some questions to all ADD persons here.

Do you have a conscious concept of your Ideal Self?

1. No, this never really occured to me or bothered me.
2. Yes, and I suffer from not living up to it, but there is nothing, that I can do.
3. Yes, and when I notice big differences to my real behaviour, this motivates me to attempt to improve myself.
4. Yes, but I avoid comparing my real behaviour with it to avoid pain.
5. Yes, and I consider myself being not much different.
6. Yes, I consider myself being not much different, while other people disagree in their feedback.

[broot]

Normally I just lurk here but this post strikes close enough to home that I had to register and reply.

The concept of an ideal self is something that I found to be common with a great deal of successful people and its something I was doing all along when I was looking in depth to what those people did to find things to emulate.

Successful people motivate themselves by pretending to be their ideal self and then beating the hell out of themselves when they're not. Look at examples like Julius Caesar, when he was captured by pirates before rising to fame he told them he would crucify all of them (what his ideal self would be able to do) and beating himself up with massive depression when he realized Alexander the Great had conquered more of the world at a younger age.


I know I beat myself up constantly when I don't do what my ideal self would do (shut out things/people/feelings that don't matter, methodically choose passions and excel at them). I know I spent a lot of time in school not paying attention to the lesson, getting an obvious question wrong when asked (Uhhhh what was the question?) then spending the rest of the time daydreaming about how I would pour time into that topic and be better at that subject then I needed to be, because I was smarter than whatever was being taught and I'd pay attention if I couldn't learn it on my own/wanted to learn it.

It could be harmful for my mental health but my ideal self would turn that pain into motivation to accomplish more. This only spirals out of control when I can't accomplish what I know I should (or should as my ideal self) through pouring effort into it by myself. Alternatively finding excuses not to be my ideal self (I'll get back on my gym routine when I'm back at a real gym, I'll study when I have meds, I'd open the text book if it helped) seems to be harmful more often and more directly.

[mADD mike]

I think we all pretty much have an "ideal self" or we wouldn't be here for help and support. We just have a disorder that affects our ability to execute what we want. ADD hurts our executive function, so we strive, often in vain, to be better at this or that. It just doesn't usually work long term, so we fight and fight and fight, but that fighting shows that we want to improve in areas and thus have an "ideal self".

[Amburgular]

I have an ideal self, I use it as motivation to make me the person I want to be.

Sometimes my ideal self changes and I like to think that I am getting closer to her everyday as I get more comfortable with myself but it has been a battle to get to where I am now.

[ADHDTigger]

I reject the notion that I should be living up to a standard that I do not set myself. Have I reached the nirvana of perfection according to the way my mind perceives it? Nope. Do I make it a constant and pervasive thought process throughout my every day? Not even close. The fact that I don't choose to be consumed by such thinking doesn't mean that I don't care. It means that I have determined that there are other more important issues to occupy my mind with.

Like any other human being, I have goals. I work consistently toward my goals. When I achieve a goal, I replace it with a new goal. "Ideal Self"? To me, the very phrase smacks of the perfectionism that I tried to drive myself around the bend with.

One of the available choices bothers me immensely- "Yes, I consider myself being not much different, while other people disagree in their feedback." If I have learned anything at all, I have learned to never judge or value myself through someone else's eyes. There will always be someone who will not agree with my self assessment. I refuse to get caught up in the game of trying to be everything to everyone. As long as I am something to ME, that is good enough. Anyone who doesn't care for that doesn't need to be around me. Frankly that is a good thing as I likely shouldn't be around them either.

Suffering does not motivate me. To live as myself, without the trappings of what other people THINK I should be, motivates me. I find that I live most fully when I am true to myself and reject the efforts of others to force me into some idiotic mold of what they think I should be.

[ginniebean]

Originally Posted by ADHDTigger

I reject the notion that I should be living up to a standard that I do not set myself. Have I reached the nirvana of perfection according to the way my mind perceives it? Nope. Do I make it a constant and pervasive thought process throughout my every day? Not even close. The fact that I don't choose to be consumed by such thinking doesn't mean that I don't care. It means that I have determined that there are other more important issues to occupy my mind with.

Like any other human being, I have goals. I work consistently toward my goals. When I achieve a goal, I replace it with a new goal. "Ideal Self"? To me, the very phrase smacks of the perfectionism that I tried to drive myself around the bend with.

One of the available choices bothers me immensely- "Yes, I consider myself being not much different, while other people disagree in their feedback." If I have learned anything at all, I have learned to never judge or value myself through someone else's eyes. There will always be someone who will not agree with my self assessment. I refuse to get caught up in the game of trying to be everything to everyone. As long as I am something to ME, that is good enough. Anyone who doesn't care for that doesn't need to be around me. Frankly that is a good thing as I likely shouldn't be around them either.

Suffering does not motivate me. To live as myself, without the trappings of what other people THINK I should be, motivates me. I find that I live most fully when I am true to myself and reject the efforts of others to force me into some idiotic mold of what they think I should be.

I'm usually pretty good at spotting the rhetorical setups by the funny feeling I get in my tummy.

What you're saying is just so spot on. Being driven by ideals is a painful way to live. Reality works.

[meadd823]

Gary wanted me to take polls for points or some thing another and the reason I didn't because it is hard for me to pick an answer unless it fits - I did not find one that fit me here because it was presented as an all or nothing scenario and for all I know for most folks it is.

Does it count if I think I know what the OP's answer would be!

There are times when having an ideal self as it is put isn't painful but is useful. Maybe because I am not talking as self-hood as in value of being a person but I see it in terms of perspective attitudes and behavior that should remain in a state of progress.

I learned this on a trip to pick up my oldest daughter back in the early 1990’s before cell phones were widely available. It started out okay but shortly after reaching the half way point between my house and my ex-husbands house where my daughter lived the car I was driving over heated and stalled leaving me stranded on the side of the highway. It was only 104F {40C} in the shade . I remember wondering why cars never break down on a balmy beautiful 74 F {23C} day. It seems the only time a car can break down is midnight in the middle of nowhere or if it is raining buckets, iced over or hotter than the hinges of hell

A long story so I will attempt to abridge. My ex was going out of town meaning I had to be there to pick up said daughter by a certain time. A nice couple let me barrow their phone to call long distance twice, then they lent me their truck so I could finish the trip to pick up my daughter in time so I could get her for her summer visitation.

Because my ex-husband did not recognize the truck I almost missed him and did not get my daughter. My ex-husband was going to be gone for a couple of weeks and my daughter was due to stay for two months so unbeknownst to me she had a tag a long a small n orphaned kitten too young to stay alone . I returned to my car my husband was there but couldn’t find any one to watch our then three year old twins and 7 year old son. After calling the tow company he decides it is to expensive to have it towed and insisted on towing the broken car back using a chain. I tried to talk him into leaving the broken car at the side of the road and coming back with one of the guys to do the chain towing thing because I suck at being pulled by chain.

After birthday number 40 I gave my self the right to absolutely refuse to be towed via a chain just like I gave myself permission to quit moving heavy appliances out of windows or up flights of stares the day I turned 35. Every five years I give myself permission to quit doing some thing that I find painfully hard or frightening.


Any way about half way home the car he was driving over heated but hard headed man refused to leave the car I was being towed in on the side of the road. I think it is a testerone thing A woman will leave the damn broken car but a man will almost die before he becomes willing to leave a car on the side of the road I really haven’t a clue why.

Oh the story - sorry Out in the middle of BFE we had no choice but to try and keep going toward home at least until we reached the next town so we could use the pay phone call someone to come get us – After a brief and heated discussion we decided we had only one option and that was to let the car he was driving cool down then drive it and pull mine as far as we could until his began to over heat again. When his car would began getting hot enough for the idiot light to come one we would stop and let it cool– wash rinse repeat - Mind you it is mid-June in Texas , we had about 150 miles {242 km} to get home with one 12 year old carrying a small kitten ,two three year olds, one seven year old, $50.00 and a lot of no where between here and home two broken cars and no food or water


We were able to tow for about 15Miles {24km} miles at the most before the car would get too hot again , less if there were hills. As the day drew on kids got hungry and whined ,the kitten began puking , and my husband began throwing a literal fits, one time he became so enraged he threw himself down in the middle of the highway attracting the cops {naturally. . }.

After a brief encounter with the mad man I was married to the police came over to make sure I was okay and to briefly explain to me a list of reasons why the tow was illegal and dangerous after dark. I was ecstatic to see the cops who were now sufficiently bewildered by our behavior.

I can remember every one looking at me as if I had lost my mind. My reasoning was days like this one MUST have red and blue flashing lights in them some how some where and the way I saw it being stopped by the police was better than requiring the services of a fire truck or ambulance. {My other two choices in emergency vehicles with flashing lights}

While the cops were explaining to my husband how and where to leave the disabled vehicle until we could come back and get it in the day light my oldest daughter asked me how was I able to remain so jovial and calm in the midst of this day from hell

One of the reason was that getting mad wasn’t going to change the situation it was only going to make it more unpleasant

My method was in my perspective the one thing I could control in this situation - The day had been one of the worst days in my 35 year life literally and I am betting even if my daughter and I lived to be a ripe old age that not many days were gong to have this many things go wrong in them as this one has

To this she agreed –

Well that means we are making a memory , we may live to be little old ladies who forget what room we walked out of five minutes ago but this day we will always remember –

My daughter nodded in agreement.

I continue - This is a memory and I know it as it is occurring. I decided to behave in a way I want to remember myself and in a way I wanted my children to remember me acting. My twins daughters are 21 and the preteen with a puking kitten is 30 and they remember just as I said they would

When times get really bad, the more they suck the more likely you are making a memory and if you can hang onto that for just a moment you will have the options of how you want to remember yourself and how others will remember you being.

That is sort of like being my ideal self but I don’t see it that way besides it was one very bad day but this sort of thing can work on a longer term basis also



I joined here I wasn't in a good place, I had just lost Gene to cancer the year before , moved from my home town and one daughter had married and the other moved in with her dad. I was alone, and my life was out of control and I didn’t have the fight left in me to take control back. I felt like a dead person whose heart forgot to quit beating. I lived inside my own head and at that time Gary was being an abusive lying jerk. Sitting in the dark living room of that trailer I remember back when I was the kind of woman who could jerk a mans chain so hard he thought he was back in jr high but I forgot how to be that person I forget how to live out side of my own head. I was clinically depressed and had failed a suicide attempt I would have tried it again if there had been a guarantee of success but I figured another attempt would make me worse than dead = a vegetable



I vaguely remembered how to use the computer and the internet so to fill the time void I decided to play around with Gary’s he wasn’t home any way – as a starting place I looked up adhd and I found here. I had never been on a forum before I did not even know how to reply to threads I kept starting new ones. The moderators had to teach me but being new and ignorant was better than being the living dead – when I registered I decided I was going to be who I wished I was the strong independent woman who had some thing to offer others meadd823 was born – at the time I felt like my life was over but when I signed in here I pretended I was still alive inside. I began posting and others responded reminding me that there was life outside of the void.

The meadd823 persona began taking more and more of my life off line until I began being out here what I was in here. Gary was given options straighten up or get out, he discovered the biatch that lived with in and yes I jerked his lying cheating chain so hard he thought he was an awkward preteen again. Nothing will straighten a man faster that having options and the ability to enforce them. The only reason I was ever helpless in this relationship with Gary is because I perceived myself to be. Once I quit seeing myself as being helpless I quit being helpless and took back the control and the responsibility for my life.


Please don’t get me wrong I never pretended to be some thing I wasn’t My early posting were mostly in the medication section because I am good at chemistry and had personally experience with Ritalin, Adderall, Conserta and Wellbutrin plus I had been a nurse for over two decades and was able to draw from that as well. What I did change when I signed in was my perception of myself which changed my attitude and then my behavior. We already are when we perceive our selves to be how could be possibly be any thing else. I already was meadd823 when I signed up I just had to reclaim what was already mine

I would not say I reached my ideal self because that indicates to me I have arrived , which to me means I am what I will always be. I hope to be growing and learning from now until the time comes for me to leave this existence.

There is "no ideal" me , but there are things I want to improve upon. . I see life as an on going process not an arrival.

[crossroads]

Thanks for commenting and thanks for voting.

In my understanding, a poll is an instrument to find out, from a neutral point of view, what people think or do. It is not any way implying, that any of the alternatives are good or bad, right or wrong.

Here is a bit more information:
http://facultyweb.cortland.edu/ander...GERS/self.html

(I had hoped, that my ADD SO could be motivated to treat me better, if I could make him add unselfishness to his ideal self. I asked him to consciously decide not to be selfish anymore. It did not work, he left instead.)

Please, more votes.

[mADD mike]

Originally Posted by crossroads

Thanks for commenting and thanks for voting.







In my understanding, a poll is an instrument to find out, from a neutral point of view, what people think or do. It is not any way implying, that any of the alternatives are good or bad, right or wrong.







Here is a bit more information:



http://facultyweb.cortland.edu/ander...GERS/self.html







(I had hoped, that my ADD SO could be motivated to treat me better, if I could make him add unselfishness to his ideal self. I asked him to consciously decide not to be selfish anymore. It did not work, he left instead.)







Please, more votes.

He wasn't necessarily selfish, he just didn't want to be who YOU wanted him to be as HIS ideal self. Who would seem to be the selfish one on such a scenario? Good grief! You can't seem to accept that not everyone wants to or even could live up to your expectations. The ideal self is a concept, not necessarily a reality. Tiggers post above is beautiful. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME IDEALS. Perhaps he was HIS "idea self", it just wasn't yours, but it isn't your life, it is his. My ideal self may not be yours, and quite obviously isn't, and others would likely have their own concepts of what is ideal as well.

[crossroads]

There are two completely different aspects, that should not be mixed. Value and differently perceived reality.

I wanted him to share my value of not being selfish. I wanted him to consciously declare, that he accepts this value and wants to be unselfish. Sharing the value of a fair balance between giving and taking is an indispensable requirement for a commitment.

Disagreement upon his selfishness as perceived by me compared as perceived by himself is a different matter.
Based on the common value of not being selfish, this disagreement could have theoretically been solved, even by a neutral third party.
When I have the value of not being selfish, while he accepts selfishness for himself, no solution of any conflict based on values is possible, when the values are in conflict.

[FrazzleDazzle]

I am compelled to answer this, but am having trouble exactly how to answer. I guess I never really thought about having an 'ideal self,' that being perceived as something never to be attained. Yet, I do strive to be better at things, but I don't kick myself if I don't anymore. I see myself as my own worst enemy at times, and have, in recent years, given myself permission to stop kicking myself so hard, and just live life. So, it's easier to stop thinking that others should be any idea of "a" self as well. As Mike pointed out so well, my ideal self and someone eles's ideal self are completely different. I have things that are important to me to strive to be better at, that are nowhere on Mike's list, as are none of his on mine.

And then, some days are just so full of just having to take care of stuff, there is absolutely no time left allowed for introspection on the what ifs and whatnots, we just plod along doing the best that we can.

One of my latest mottos is that what others think of me is none of my business. That helps me a lot, releives the stress of having to live up to others' expectations, and I still have my friends and family who appreciate and love me for who I am, as well as that I love them for who they are, imperfections and all.

Finally, I feel, for myself, that is is a great burden to bear to be comparing expectations and ideal selves of each other, for our 'selves' are the things that make us each unuiquely human and interesting. Ideal selves are an extremely personal concept and endeavor, and really are no one else's business.

And because our ideal selves are such personal and private entities, if anyone I was close to made ovious attempts at imposing their own ideal self onto me, I would be so outta there, especially given ultimatums. Likewise, I'd be outta there if someone I was wanting to be close with did not already have somewhat of a "self" that aligned with my own. Unconditional acceptence is the only way to keep people around us. We also have the second option of just walking away if that alignment is just not there and is cleary unacceptable to continue to be around. Requesting someone to align with our own "self" or offering ultimatums is never an acceptable option.

It is very unrealistic and unfair to expect that we can continue to be friendly with others if either party is imposing and/or expecting such personal and private issues to align when it is clear that they do not.

So, in your situation that brought this question to this forum, I will agree though he may have some personality issues, his "ideal self," whatever it may be, was not in line with yours, nor yours with his. It is great that you have your standards, but they are yours, and yours alone. He has different standards and levels of what is acceptable, and obviously different things that are important to him.

[mADD mike]

You are trying too hard to fit humanity into a neat little logical box. You are obviously intelligent, but intelligence mixed with a lack of "street sense", how people work, etc. is of little value. You think you get to set rules for other people as to how such negotiations proceed, and that isn't true. You come across completely self-absorbed, even if you aren't, because you appear in your posts to only be capable of seeing things one way - your way. He has moved on, and you, in your ideal self, are still sitting here mulling over every facet of your short and unhappy life together and not listening to the feedback thar you say you want. You are choosing to see things your way, and intellectualizing everything. Emotions aren't always logical. Ideals aren't always logical. And frankly, neither are intellectual ramblings based on false premises. Logic and intelligence, when based on something flawed, will end with a flawed result.

You are the one consumed by this. You make a million judgemental statements in your other thread on this man, seemingly unable to grasp that he either could not be what you wanted because of his own disorders, or that he was making a conscious choice not to share your flawed values.

We are all imperfect, him, me, you, etc., and you can't always make rules or even gain understanding of everything that happens. I've said it once and I'll say it again. You are much better served to look at your flaws in this and to grow from them, than you are to waste so much time and energy trying to figure out what happened in a relationship that was a lost cause and where he has left you because he doesn't want to fit in your definition of what he would ideally be.

You can keep calling everything he did selfish (and doing so in error), while ignoring your own incredibly selfish demands and expectations of him, but it will get you right where you are today. Or, you can quit blaming everything on him, accept the reality of your own failures in this, learn and grow from them, and move to more successful relationships.

I'll be blunt. You are 60 or so years old. You have a finite time left on this earth, as do we all. Do you want to rehash this over and over and overlook explanations while you hold fast to misplaced ideals, or do you want to move on, leave this bad experience behind, and learn from your own mistakes? Learn and grow, and live out the rest of your years finding the person that matches more closely what you want and need, rather than spending time trying to fix people that don't necessarily need fixing.

[crossroads]

For me, the Ideal Self is in an indirect way related with trust and trustworthiness, in the way, how my brain works:

Interacting with people needs an evaluation of their trustworthiness. That depends on a calculation of the probability of certain behaviours in the future.
With a person, whom I have known for a long time, there is a history. Have I never caught him with a lie in the past, I consider it as highly probable they will not lie in the future. Has he lied 12 times in a year, I would expect the next lie in less than a month.
With a person, whom I know very little, it is much more difficult. He can do good things, because he like me, or because he wants to manipulate me. He can do bad things to me, because he is malicious or unknowingly and by accident.
Therefore, I feel a need to find out, what motivates his actions, what values and attitudes are behind it, forming his real self, and how he struggles about living up to his ideal self.

A committed relationship can only last, when there is the shared value of a balance of giving and taking for both partners. When one is more selfish than the other, it is doomed to fail. That is not only my personal view, but the advice of countless marriage counseling sites on the web.
I took it for granted, that this value formed a part of his real self. If someone claims to have been the mentor to troubled persons in a 12-step group, I take the knowledge of such basic wisdom for granted.
When I experienced too much of his selfish behaviour, I started to be puzzled. I wanted from him the reassurance, that he did share such a value with me, and if not, that he would acknowledge the need to make it his value too.

This bounced off a resistant mind, either he did not understand my thoughts, or he was too emotionally blocked to deal with it. I am struggling to find out, why. At this moment, narcissism seems to be the best explanation, but I am here to find out, how much ADD could have to do with it.

[FrazzleDazzle]

Crossroads, it is what it is.

You are correct, in order for there to be a basis for a strong, committed relationship, certain attributes should be present in both parties. Selflessness is definitley one of them, you are very correct.

If you see that your partner is innately selfish, at his age, hun, it is what it is. If he has not already figured that out and is able to offer that to anyone in his life, it is not your place to request that of him for you, don't you see? What you did "wrong" was accept a broken person into your life, someone who is beyond fixing, yet you tried, and are wondering what went wrong in the relationship because he walked away. HE was actually the more "in tune one" here becasue he knew he was not in alignment with you, nor ever could be, because he knows that "he is what he is." And you are what you are.......

Here's your flaw in thinking, as you stated: "I wanted from him the reassurance, that he did share such a value with me, and if not, that he would acknowledge the need to make it his value too."

We are what we are, and such values are either there, or they are not.

[crossroads]

Here's your flaw in thinking, as you stated: "I wanted from him the reassurance, that he did share such a value with me, and if not, that he would acknowledge the need to make it his value too."

No, it is not a flaw at all. As long, as he wanted to marry me and spend the rest of his life with me, he had to accept his share in the effort to make it work. When the need for the shared value of an unselfish and fair balance between giving and taking is common sense for marriage counselors between many more people, then entering a commitment with the goal of marriage implies accepting such shared values.
When somebody commits to a job as a teacher, he has to accept shared values with his school like punctuality.

If somebody cannot acknowledge the shared values of any kind of commitment, he has to stay out it.

Someone, who does not accept the balance of giving and taking in a relationship, should stay alone and not enter a relationship, that he brings doom to.

Had he refused to acknowledge needed shared values, before we got involved, I would have made a flaw in demanding them. Just as the school could not demand the shared value of punctuality from anybody, only from a teacher, after he committed himself to the job.