Adderall + Too Much Sleep = Brain Fog???

[Wintermute]

So for the last few weeks I've noticed that if I sleep for more than 5-6 hours, I wake up extremely tired and foggy-headed. I don't mean a little foggy either, more like my head is stuffed with cotton! It's awful because I'm never getting enough sleep, but if I sleep in at all the next day is unpleasant. I also lose all focus, motivation, and feel like I weigh 500 pounds.

When this happens (like it did yesterday, today I got up after 5 hours of sleep and feel fine) I notice that to make matters worse my Adderall is much much less effective, at least until the evening. I'll admit that I appreciate the awakening effects of my medication, though I don't take it for that reason. But when I take 15mg IR in the morning on a empty stomach (and a cup of strong coffee) it should atleast clear my head at the very least! I don't mind feeling groggy, that's normal.....for for blanks-sake I can't think at ALL. I end up taking my second dose about 2 hours later, and I usualy wait around 4 hours, and then it's not until my 3rd dose that I actually start to feel like I can think again.

It's odd too because until that 3rd dose I'll feel almost like I haven't taken meds all day. I'll be irritable, emotional, and get light-headed doing simple things like stretching after standing up. Once I take my 3rd (out of 4) 15mg IR of the day though I finally feel normal. Today I woke up after 5 hours of sleep instead of 8, and I feel totally fine, just tired in the eyes if you know what I mean.

How does all this happen from sleeping too much??? And not even that much at all! My body wants to sleep longer, it really really does, but I hate it when I wake up, I feel like I'm withdrawing from my meds or something. Obviously I don't want that, they work fine for me, no bad side effects, no abuse....just this stupid sleep thing.

I should also mention that I started smoking again in the last 3 months, and it's been particularly bad since, and I wonder if it has something to do with that. It's really inconvenient too because I like to sleep in with my girlfriend on her days off, and then when we have the day to hang out and run errands or whatever, I'm useless and unpleasant until early evening...

Anyway, this is getting really long (sorry), but does anyone have any thoughts? Experience? Possible solutions? I take 4X15mg IR (Eon/Sandoz) a day by the way, and smoke about half a pack of cigarettes Any help at all would be appreciated!

[Wintermute]

Oh, sorry to make this even longer, but I have a personal theory, though even if I'm right it doesn't solve my problem....

I think maybe when I sleep 6+ hours my brain goes without any Adderall or nicotine for long enough to completely have it leave my system, and my dopamine and norepinephrine levels return to baseline (or sub-baseline, since that's the nature of neurochemistry in those on meds). Maybe then getting those levels back up takes more Adderall than if they had remained elevated....

I know that cigarettes also keep your dopamine levels elevated all day (slight MAO inhibition), which is a rather new discovery since before people thought nicotine was a short acting stimulant, hence the need for constant "redosing". At least it was news to me. (I do plan on quitting after finals, I never intended on smoking again and don't want to be a smoker anymore).

Basically my theory is that I'm going into "withdrawals" while I sleep, and wake up feeling shi**y. This is a dramatic comparison, but I've heard of heroine addicts withdrawing during the night and waking up sick every morning....Obviously my issue isn't that bad (not to mention I'm taking meds prescribed to me, responsibly).

But even if I'm totally right here, what's the solution to this? Or am I totally wrong? Then what?

[Josh_kelly]

Well, I think that the longer you sleep, the longer period that adderall is out of your system from the night before so when you take your dose in the morning its start from zero adderall in your system.

While if you sleep shorter hours, some adderall might be still in your system (I guess not good deep sleep) and when you take your dose in the morning, it builds up on the adderall already in your system.

My advice, take larger dose in the morning on empty stomach with club soda maybe 20-25 mg and take smaller dose throughout the day, 10 then 5. that's what I do and it works fine.

Adderall accumulates and stays longer in your system. That's why you feel adderall all of the sudden when you take the last dose.

Best to take larger doses with longer gap between doses. For example, take 20 mg every four hours instead of 5 mg every hour (for the sandoz/IR). I think with Barr if you take large dose you get anxious and jittery. Because barr binders are cheap so release large dose in the shortest time.

[Wintermute]

Yeah I used to take 3x20mg, but for a while I was having 11 hour work days and 13 hours of school/commute. I needed more even coverage. I'll give it a shot though, see if it helps. Thanks!

[Josh_kelly]

No problem. I did not mean to increase your overall daily dose (although you might benefit from increasing your dose) I meant to increase your morning dose and decrease the next dose and the last dose is the lowest.
If your daily dose is 40 mg. Try 25 mg in the morning then 10 mg then 5 mg.

"Time-course results indicated that the afternoon dose of medication seemed to have a larger effect than the morning dose , raising the possibility that afternoon dose of stimulant medication may be able to be reduced relative to the morning dose without a corresponding reduction in efficacy. Although this practice is commonly used with some cases in clinical settings, it is almost never used in empirical investigations and no studies have systematically

http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ract/103/4/e43

[umm_lemme]

Wintermute -- do you remember what it was like when you slept in before Adderall? I noticed a general problem with oversleeping -- it makes me unmotivated and uncomfortable the next day.

[Wintermute]

Originally Posted by Josh_kelly

No problem. I did not mean to increase your overall daily dose (although you might benefit from increasing your dose) I meant to increase your morning dose and decrease the next dose and the last dose is the lowest.
If your daily dose is 40 mg. Try 25 mg in the morning then 10 mg then 5 mg.

Oh I know. I used to take more in the mornings and less at night occasionally, but noticed my morning doses are less effective than at night, so I take even amounts all day. I'm already at the max adult dosage anyway (60mg) and my doc was fairly firm about not raising it. Once I tried the Eon/Sandoz generic however, I wasn't needing a raise anymore.

I gave the increased morning and decreased evening dose a chance on Saturday. Apparently though, I had a hangover from drinking a bit the night before (I haven't been drinking cause of school, tolerance has plummeted!). I say "apparently" because right when I woke up I took 30mg, and by time I had my coffee I felt fine. It was later after I had skipped breakfast because my dogs needed taking out (not something I'd usually do when hungover) and the first dose started wearing off a bit that I started feeling awful. The adderall killed my hangover but only temporarily, and then it ended up making it worse because I wasn't taking care of myself in the typical hangover fashion (big breakfast, little activity, whereas I did the opposite ).

Anyway, long story just to say that I'll give it a try again when I feel like sleeping in. Today I had to do tons of homework so it was back to 4 15mg doses so I could stretch my study time.

Originally Posted by umm_lemme

Wintermute -- do you remember what it was like when you slept in before Adderall? I noticed a general problem with oversleeping -- it makes me unmotivated and uncomfortable the next day.

Oh yeah, sleeping too long or too late has always made me a little irritable, or just out of it all day. Unmotivated is a good description, especially if I slept too late.

Now that I take Adderall it's waaaaay more intense, plus a feeling of weighing 100X more than I do. Irritability is still there, and I just don't want to do anything unless it sounds amazingly fun. If my girlfriend even suggests going to the store or cleaning or going to the bank, and I haven't mentally prepared myself all morning, I'll be a real whiner about it. I feel bad for her on those days....it's actually the main reason I typed all this up!

[Wintermute]

I just thought of another possibility. It could be because adderall elevates your blood sugar, so when I sleep long enough for it to go back down, it drops below normal levels. I've always had sensitive blood sugar, and need to eat fairly often to keep from feeling shaky and irritable. This is probably why I feel lightheaded before I take my adderall. Smoking has the same effect, and if I smoke all day then sleep...drinking can also intensify that. This could explain why when I took more and skipped breakfast it made me feel 10 times worse than usual when it wore off.

Any thoughts on this? Am I on to something or way off?