Lortab Physical Addiction?

[akiss4u]

I have had serious joint and neck pain for years due to facets sydrome, fibromyalgia and joint disease(arthritis). I also have ADHD.

My problems started at 24 with my joint pain. The pain would subside and then come back. I took Ultram 50 mg 2 to 3 times - a day off and on for years. Sometimes I would be pain free for weeks and not take any medication.

Well last year I fell an injured my neck and I was put on Lortab 7.5 to take every 4 hours as needed. I no longer took Ultram instead I was taking Lortab about 3 or 4 times a day for 4 months. I felt 4 months was a long time to be on Lortab and I should be getting healed by now... so after still expereincing ton's of pain, I went to a pain management doctor and was prescribed the same medication- Lortab - and with therapy and muscle stimulators, I was able to manage the pain and only needed to take the Lortab 2 or 3 times a day. I had taken Lortab daily for almost 8 months and when I tried to stop taking it all together I got VERY sick. I had extreme pain - head aches - diariah (watery stools) - high blood pressure, dizziness, watery eyes, anxiety, fatigue and either sweating or chills.

I mentioned these sypmtoms to my pain management doctor and I think this scared him because he said no more Lortab and put me back on Ultram. When I asked him if I was addicted to Lortab he said that I was not addicted and that I could not be addicted from taking it only once or twice a day. He said I needed to take it to manage the pain and he felt I was not abusing it but he still wanted me to switch back to the Ultram.

I tried the Ultram and had no pain releif and I got sick and I also found out that I could not take Ultram with Adderall or Ritalin because it can cause seizures. I have to take Adderall for ADHD and the Lortab is safe to take with the Adderall. So now I am back to Lortab again. I am still taking 1 or 2 Lortab at night because since I have began taking stimulants in the morning I have no need to take the pain medication. I have no pain when the stimulants are in effect.

I am worried about taking the Lortab every day - even though I do have pain when I take it. I have never taken Lortab for anything other than the pain releif - I usually can't sleep when I take Lortab because it makes me more hyper than I all ready am! I don't get that euphoric feeling like others describe. I just feel my normal ADHD self yet pain free - but wide awake. If I don't take it I get really sick and there is not much other medications that I can take for pain due to allergies! I don't know what to do. Am I physically addicted to the Lortab because I get sick when I take it? Should I just stop taking Lortab and deal with the pain? I don't know what to do!

For now - I am in the process of finding a new pain management doctor because this one won't prescribe anything but wants to inject numbing medication into my spine and I don't want that - I hate needles!

Am I addicted to Lortab physically or what?

How can I get help for my pain - I am scared that I may be addicted to Lortab?

Sorry this is so long I just need some help. What are your thoughts?

[FightingBoredom]

There are many non-medication resolutions to pain.

Have you sought out a good accupuncturist?

That is one of many ways to work your body away from the meds and away from pain as well.

There is also biofeedback therapy in conjunction with many homeopathic remedies.

[akiss4u]

Yes I have tried accupuncture and I don't like needles and it did not do much for the pain long term. I have tried special diets, herbal supplements, vitamins and minerals as well.

[Ian]

Drugs are a double edged sword for me. I have come to appreciate their help but have a long list of other approaches that help me cope with broader general health and metal health issues. I know processed foods are not helping me. I know that good water and lots of fresh fruits and vegetables are a good thing. I know that a diet rich with insoluble fibre is a big help. I know that yoga, physiotherapy, massage, even chiropractors have all been of help to me at one time or another. I do what I can. I rely on meds as little as I can. There are much bigger benefits available with a holistic approach in my circumstances so that's what I try and practise.

I'm not very knowlagable about medications. I know addiction to a very complex issue.

I looked at my dosages of Dexedrine and found that the Dr. who had perscribed it had no clue as to how long the stuff was in my system and how long it might take to be clear of it.

I made some changes to the time I took the Dex to try to help avoid becoming tolerant to the levels of Dex I currently prefer.

When I asked my Dr. about whether she was concerned about me getting addicted to dexamphetamine she stated that the only way to get into trouble that way is to increase the dose. I'm sure that's not true in all cases but on the low dose that I use it's not a problem if I don't become tolerant and need more to get the same effect.

I use my pharmacist for lots of these questions. I find that pharmacists have a way better idea of what drugs do and know many details that are of interest to me.

If the meds are making you sick I'd be looking into doing something differently for sure. I'm no doctor but you should be chasing one who can at least help you find the care you need. Professionals are best when you need to know "for sure".

From - http://www.drugs.com/PDR/Lortab_5_500_Tablets.html
Hydrocodone : Following a 10 mg oral dose of hydrocodone administered to five adult male subjects, the mean peak concentration was 23.6 ± 5.2 ng/mL. Maximum serum levels were achieved at 1.3 ± 0.3 hours and the half-life was determined to be 3.8 ± 0.3 hours. Hydrocodone exhibits a complex pattern of metabolism including O-demethylation, N-demethylation and 6-keto reduction to the corresponding 6-(alpha)- and 6-(beta)-hydroxymetabolites.

The half life is pretty short but another point of interest is whether or not this drug breaks down into other components that may have half lives of their own. So the long and short of it is that I can't answer your question clearly. I don't know whether or not you're addicted. I've only mentioned the physical addiction. There are psychological addictions too so you are really the only one perfectly situated to know whether or not you are addicted. You might want to seek out an addictions councillor for a better idea of variety of options.

I hope others can help you out more on the pharmacology.

I hate needles. Always have. I have taken some steps over the last couple of years that have helped out a lot though.

Hope this helps you some.
Cheers! Ian.

[Draga]

You're not alone in Hating Needles...If ever I have to take a blood test...they have to use the baby needle while I Look the other way.

I rarely take my Pain Meds that I do have for my Hip problems....I try putting my legs up or soak in hot water..if all else fails...i go for the Ibuprophren....

When I have been taking meds for a long time...I would get sick too if I would stop taking it...Like I was going through Withdrawl...I can not really say if you are or not.

Is there anything else you can do when you are in Pain?

[akiss4u]

Thanks for all your posts. I don't think I am addicted to the Lortab just because it releives my pain. I talked to my doctor and he said there is a big difference between addiction to drugs and medication dependance for pain releif. He said that If I were taking it when I'm not in pain than it would be considered addiction. He said that if you take it on a regualar basis it could cause physicall addiction even if your not in pain. He said taking it 1 or 2 times a day for pain should not cause a severe dependance physically. So my question is this am I going to have to take pills for the rest of my life? I guess if I am in pain - I will. The doctor said he does'nt know. A friend said if you have to take medication to help with your ADHD why would you stop just because it can be addictive he said it is just like the medication for pain. My friend said if something helps you then that was what it's for. Medicine is for treatment and works if it is not abused. I know that I have not abused the Lortab but I do think I need it. The problem is if I don't take it when I need it for pain - I get even more severe pain and get really sick.

[FightingBoredom]

OK, go to anthonyrobbins.com and do some research there.

It would take a couple of hours to go into the things that could be interfering with your medical treatments or causing them to only work short term.

[akiss4u]

I read his book the "Ultimate Power" years ago. I did go to his site but I am not sure what I am looking for. I like his ideas and methods. They do work if you can develop his mental awareness training. Old habbits are hard to break though. I had a much more positive perception of life in general after reading his book. I think a lot of physicall pain is psychological or induced by something psychological at times. If it is in your mind it feels real. Many people who have lost limbs still feel pain in them - even though they are not there. This can happen with teeth that have been extracted. So it is like your central nervous system still believes that the limb or tooth is still there and it sends the pain messages back to the brain. A strange phenominon.

[Gregster]

While pain may be "in your head" (ultimately that's where the perception of pain comes from!) that doesn't mean that it can be controlled consciously. A positve outlook usually helps most conditions - "Anthony Robbins" type stuff can't hurt - but it's not going to cure you. It's possible that you have a mild physical habit with the Lortab - perhaps causing the sickness when you don't take it - but it's also possible that the severe pain is making you physically sick too - and that would be my guess as to the cause as opposed to addiction. Mild withdrawl symptoms are somewhat flu like. Given that you get your drugs from a Dr and pharmacist, you won't have been given enough to develop more than a mild physical habit. Most people being treated for chronic pain are going to have this problem. Given the choice between suffering and Lortab, I know which one I would choose personally!
It is interesting how phantom pain works, by the way. It's not imagined or psychosomatic, per se - the nerve pathways that the brain is used to communicating with aren't there and it takes some time for the brain to adapt. Someone I know lost a hand a few year back and her other hand became hyperactive for a while - the Dr told her that it was as if her brain was compensating by sending twice the normal amount of activity to the hand that was still there!
Regards,
Greg

[akiss4u]

Well I found a doctor who would listen and he is sending me in for a full MRI on Monday because of my pain and that I have no reflex in my legs. He said that there is a definate problem in my spine. He prescribed norco and cyclobenziprine and said he would only prescribe this until my tests come back. I researched this medication and it is just a stronger form of lortab with less tylenol in it and more narcotic. He said you dont get addicted if you take it as needed. So I guess we'll see what the MRI shows on Monday.

[TheBrainiac]

The definition of addiction is the compulsion to continue to take a substance(s) despite its causing you negative consequences in your life or physical well being. Even if you took the Lortab® every now and then and were not in pain, it would not be called addiction, but rather abuse. Hydrocodone does have the potential to create a physiological manifestation of symptoms hence its scheduling as a controlled substance. You may be experiencing the phenomena of pseudoaddiction, where dependence upon a drug makes you appear/feel that you are addicted, but like your MD said, there is a difference between the two.

[neoamd]

Originally Posted by akiss4u

I had taken Lortab daily for almost 8 months and when I tried to stop taking it all together I got VERY sick. I had extreme pain - head aches - diariah (watery stools) - high blood pressure, dizziness, watery eyes, anxiety, fatigue and either sweating or chills.

I mentioned these sypmtoms to my pain management doctor and I think this scared him because he said no more Lortab and put me back on Ultram.

Opiate withdrawls in the bold. To develop those symtoms I'd say you took atleast 2 day and on some days more than that. The Ultram (tramadol) helps big time with w/ds from opiates.

If your asking about your dependence on something its a sign that points to: yes. Your even looking for a different PM doc since he won't give you anything but tramadol. Going to different doc will just get you back on opiates of some kind, if thats your goal then good luck. If not just use other means of helping in pain relief. There are many different herbal type treatments but be warned some will cause WORSE w/d's.

You can tell me whatever you want but I've spent alot of time with opiates in my past and I have a good idea of how it works. In the end your old enough to pick which path you take. If you do get back on lortabs (hydrocodone) just be careful.

PM me if you have any questions.

[neoamd]

Originally Posted by akiss4u

Well I found a doctor who would listen and he is sending me in for a full MRI on Monday because of my pain and that I have no reflex in my legs. He said that there is a definate problem in my spine. He prescribed norco and cyclobenziprine and said he would only prescribe this until my tests come back. I researched this medication and it is just a stronger form of lortab with less tylenol in it and more narcotic. He said you dont get addicted if you take it as needed. So I guess we'll see what the MRI shows on Monday.

haha sure, thats why most people who are hooked on opiates are scripted for them.

Norco is just a name for hydrocodone. They come in a variety of strengths.. 7.5mg and 10mg with usually 325mg of APAP (acetaminophen) vs 500/650mg for plain ol' generic hydrocodone tabs/pills. Norco = Lortabs = Hydrocodone.

Its not any stronger than plain lortabs, just depends on the contents of the hydrocodone.. like I said above.. 7.5 or 10mg (generic hydrocodone can also come in 5mg form).

Need to do more research **EDIT: I reccomend this place for starters: http://www.erowid.org/pharms/hydroco...rocodone.shtml

Good luck in the long run, one day it'll catch up to you. I reccomend you keeping the tramadol/ultracet for the day when do you hit those symptons again as it can be a big help as far as withdrawls are concerned.

Like I said above, any questions just PM me.

[QueensU_girl]

My injuries are similar.

Manual therapy, trigger point work and "laser" and SSRIs were my solution for these problems (FMS, muscle rupture due to injury, nerve pain/neuralgia and facet joint problems).

Manual therapy, trigger point work and laser gave me my life back.

My Doc won't Rx anything stronger than Tylenol #3s. It used to frustrate me, but I'm now really grateful for that...

[QueensU_girl]

re: #12

yeah, the WD symptoms are the opposite of the opiate/opioid drug's effects. (Chills, vomitting, diarrhea, muscle/joint pains, headache, like the flu "times 100".)

No withdrawal taper, eh?

Go back to your doctor for a taper program...