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  #76  
Old 09-12-13, 05:18 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

Hmm. Grief. It has not been a constant companion of mine.

Through grade school, I got top grades but was told I could do better. Strongest emotion: confusion.
I seem to have a high IQ, and that makes me good at test-taking. So, in high school, I never developed study habits. Never could get around to reading the book or doinng homework, the teacher lectures were enough to get me 100% on exams. Literature classes were harder, I HAD to write those term papers. I had (and still have) illegible handwriting and often my grades were knocked down from A to C for that reason alone.
My emotion: Hope that school will end after 12th grade.

College: lack of study habit skills hurt a lot. It was a struggle to pass classes. I could tell that the problem was a combo of I did not know how to study, wasn't interested, and even when I did try to stick with it, I was too easily distracted. My emotion? "This is a warm-up for real life, it will pass." Still looking with hope to the future.

Then 12 years having trouble keeping a job, wondering why I was such a mess-up. In 1994, I was diagnosed with ADHD. I did not "feel good" about knowing a name for it...that didn't fix it. I did not feel good because I was not alone...all I wanted was improvement; the fact that others had the same problem simply made me feel sorry for them...if they didn't have my IQ their lives must be very miserable.

But, after the diagnosis, in '94, I felt a new hope - hope that something could be done. Meds, therapy, whatever. Well, meds had little effect..."pills don't teach skillls". and I went through counselor after counselor who simply said "You're smart enough to deal with this without help". So, my hope turned to despair.

And for the first time - grief - that there will never be substantial improvement for me.

After two years of spending a LOT of time trying to fnid ways, reading books, seeing counselors, I just gave up the attempts, as they seemed an expensive way to use up time and make no progress. I figured that with luck, I'd fall into something that didn't highlight my weaknesses. And that has never happened.

It was last year when I decided to loko again into the ADHD stuff...read one of Tuckman's books, then Barkley. They sure painted a picture of meds being an awesome bene, so I tried 'em again. I have more energy...but I'm still lacking skills and diligence. Haven't seen a counselor yet, but I'm hoping there are some who specialize in adult ADHD...haven't found one in my health care plan yet.

So, I'm starting to feel grief again, that knowing the name, and being on meds, really isn't going to do much. More like despair, I'd say.

I do want to simply be OK with what I have and find something to do for the last years of my career that works out OK with ADHD...but I don't know how to find it.

So, amidst being a generally optimistic person, there's a perpetual undercurrent of feeling simply adrift.
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  #77  
Old 12-20-13, 01:28 AM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

I just joined this forum after receiving my adhd diagnosis today. Thank you for this post. I am grieving, and since I have to wait about a month to even see a Dr, I think it will be a slow, gradual acceptance process as I gradually discover what life with treatment is like. Thank you for helping to normalize this process.
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Old 01-17-14, 11:03 AM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

Diagnosed in 2008 at 14 now 19, therefore able to go as teen or adult. But when I was younger I was always more fascinated by people and enjoyed to be a wallflower more than most and would just study people. A quote from Sherlock, "Dear God, what must it be like in your puny little minds." would be the best way I can describe my thoughts now because I always knew I was not normal but for my first 10 years of school I had no idea what made it different. The urge to be a wallflower grew as I got older, less urge to play, and more urge to study.
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Old 01-17-14, 11:06 AM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

Oh and your mind is way out on the water.
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Old 01-17-14, 01:39 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slkrame View Post
Oh and your mind is way out on the water.
coy koi?
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Old 01-17-14, 01:59 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

Quote:
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coy koi?
There is a guy on here named WheresMyMind he made me think of this song
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Old 01-17-14, 07:27 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

I like this one: hehe

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Old 01-17-14, 08:38 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=aZglqkCRNt8
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Old 01-18-14, 11:23 AM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

I could not find the Sucker Punch version in the whole 10 seconds I could focus to search.
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Old 02-09-14, 01:39 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

At the age of almost 59 I'm finally diagnosed and just started Ritalin Friday. I had suspected I have ADD for some years but situations did not permit trying to get treated.
Am I grieving for the decades of frustration, underachievement, shame, guilt, feeling stupid, lazy and neurotic? Yes.
I've had a lot of experience with grieving loss and what might have been. And learned to let it go and go on. In the past 7 years, I've lost 2 of the people I loved most in life to alcohol induced suicide and psychosis. One dead, one lost son, home and sanity, now sleeps in a homeless shelter pestering passerby with monotone monologues. Many people have experienced far greater loss than I and go on with life. How we choose to come through grief IS something we can do--within limits as our brain and body health may get us stuck.
Forgiving them, myself and the 3 shrinks, multiple counselors and doctors who all missed my ADD has been hard. Both of the loved ones I now see as having signs of ADD also. I see how my parents each had some of my symptoms and how this would have caused them to fight, scream and forget how much they loved each other. Since my own behavior was affected by my ADD, if I can forgive myself for what I could not help, I must forgive them for the same.
The past 50 years is the first time in human history when ADD could be treated. All those before us had to cope. Rather than snivel because I am so late to getting help, I can choose to be grateful for finally getting what I need to be all I can be. I could have chosen to whine, snivel, cry woe is me and wallow joyfully in knowing so much wasn't my fault. What a loser way to go though. I've been through enough to skip that crap and get on to the good stuff.
I was fortunate to go through the horrendous stress with having overall good health and information on how to help myself cope with diet, supplements, lifestyle and counselors and for a while an SSNRI and clonazepam. My life has been rebuilt, I have true love, a great life and am basically one of the happiest people I know.
Grief has an important purpose. To show us the shape, breadth and depth of what we love and value. Like acid etching glass, if we let it wash away, our love is more fully revealed. When the waves roll over us, we can know that this is an arrow pointing us to someone or thing we hold very dear. Let it ebb to see the love.
I have shed tears for myself and others who have had through no fault of their own, lost so much quality of life due to not being treated. Some are brimming now. I'll honor the tears and let them wash away another layer to reveal more love and potential.
The one thing I am currently honoring myself for is not quitting until I found an answer and taking the step to try meds. There are many forms of courage and I have had role models in many friends who have faced worse adversity and chose to come through with more compassion, more joy in life and with integrity. Others have remained stuck in victimhood, blame, arrogance--my pain is bigger than your so what the F are you complaining about? have gone cold or huddled in fear afraid to try again.
How do YOU want to come through this grieving?
Namaste, the Divine in me Salutes the Divine in you.
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  #86  
Old 02-10-14, 12:59 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

What a wonderful posting, you covered so much ground and did so with great articulation. Too bad the posting software eliminated your paragraph breaks, it would have been a bit easier to read.

My own grief process was up and down. When I first read about adult ADHD, I wondered if I had it. I'd been DXed hyperactive as a kid but meds did nothing. I had actually forgotten about that until I read an article about ADHD. So, at 37 I went in and got diagnosed.

Oh, what hope I had! No grief, really. My life had been a struggle. Until my 20s I had difficulty with any kind of friendship, school was boring, then college was hard, and I never got a good review on the job, fired for lack of performance over and over, etc. I knew my performance issue was about not sticking to the work at hand, but gosh, how do people do all that? I could write all the to-do lists in the world, but if I didn't look at them again, what good did it do?

So, hearing the diagnosis, I was elated. Then, when we started doing meds and the doctor pronounced (based on a TOVA test) that we'd hit the right spot...nothing changed. I sort of felt maybe I was doing some things better, but I was not, IMO, a "higher performance" person. I was not seeing the changes I felt I needed to maintain a job.

Well, NOW the grief process set in. I'd read Hallowell and Ratey, and a few other books, and the message was "adults with ADHD are doomed, unless they get treated" and here I am, someone on whom treatment doesn't work. Ugh. Double-ugh. Depression. Heavy drinking. Oops, no, let's not do that.

Quoting you:
"Many people have experienced far greater loss than I and go on with life. How we choose to come through grief IS something we can do--within limits as our brain and body health may get us stuck."

To me, this is a crucial point. I think independent of the ADHD, people either have an "I can get past this" attitude or they believe in victimhood. One of the reasons we learn to ride bikes as kids is to learn that failure only happens when you choose to not get up. Life is all about things that don't go as we planned. That's inherent in the learning and growing process. "Wait, that wasn't supposed to happen, could I have done something different to avoid it?" Pain is nature telling you that there's a lesson to be had, and if you don't learn it, you'll feel this pain again.

When I got DXed with ADHD, the doc listened to my tales of multiple job loss, failure to maintain romantic relationships (until I met the one I was just then separating from after ten years, which was an emotionally toxic relationship - that SO has never managed to get anybody on a date twice in a row since me). He said, "You have a strong emotional spine, but this is common in adults with ADHD. The adult with ADHD fails often and learns that life goes on."

When I meet someone who doesn't believe this, I feel very sorry. Whether you have ADHD or not, the belief that this is only a setback is paramount.

And loss. One of the reasons children have pets is so that they learn loss. Everything that enters your life leaves at some point, too. Based on my experiences abroad, Americans are unique in grieving as long and as deep as we do. Somehow, other cultures understand our moral obligation to die, and when a person does so, those who remain seem more personally capable of celebrating the life that the person had.

But that's not to say there should be no grief. And, I venture to say, it is a tragedy when it doesn't happen the way we expect - we expect to lose our parents when they get old. We most certainly are not prepared to watch our own offspring die.

Having said that, I got a little note today that put a sparkle in my eye. A neighbor died. Joe. He would have turned 102 next month. He outlived all but one of his children. He joked about that once "I want to never leave my children without a father."

"The past 50 years is the first time in human history when ADD could be treated."

Not quite. It went by other names, and there's evidence that as early as the late 1800s, stimulants were being administered to unruly schoolboys.

One of the doctors I used to see in Denver told me something that was illuminating. "Stimulants help everybody focus. Some a little, some a lot. When I served aboard an aircraft carrier in WWII, my main job was to titrate amphetamines to fighter pilots. For each pilot, I knew how many mg he needed, and how long before take-off, to maximize his ability to focus while on mission." He also said that in private practice before the war, amphetamines were occasionally used to treat issues called variously "Minimal Brain Dysfunction" and "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", which he felt were the same thing except that MBD was diagnosed in adults, and ODD in children.

But, sigh, Hallowell claims that only 30% of ADDer are "significantly improved" with any meds at all, and I do wish I were one of them. So, as miraculous as meds have been, there's a substantial part of the population for whom they have little or no impact. I'm on Adderall, the stimulant effect helps me overcome my otherwise sluggish mornings, but I'm not sure I focus better. My "treatment" consists of developing an obsessive-compulsive behavior with to-do lists, and organizers and stuff. Does it work? Kind of. It's so complex that I spent the first two hours of every day making sure I haven't forgotten anything, and that I think I know what to do first. And I still don't get it all done, and yet I'm unemployed at the moment.

I'm used to it though...not grieving. I have good points and weak points, and I try to find worthy things to do that capitalize on the good points. In the end, I think that may be the most effective ADHD treatment: learn what you do poorly and avoid situations that require it.

"All those before us had to cope. Rather than snivel because I am so late to getting help, I can choose to be grateful for finally getting what I need to be all I can be. I could have chosen to whine, snivel, cry woe is me and wallow joyfully in knowing so much wasn't my fault. What a loser way to go though. I've been through enough to skip that crap and get on to the good stuff."


I LOVE your approach! The past is the past, the ONLY thing we can influence is the future, so let's dwell on THAT instead of the past.

"The one thing I am currently honoring myself for is not quitting until I found an answer and taking the step to try meds. There are many forms of courage and I have had role models in many friends who have faced worse adversity and chose to come through with more compassion, more joy in life and with integrity."

I confess that I don't honor myself. But I also don't feel the need for honor. I'm just weird that way. Glad you've had good role models. I've known incredibly successful people but I've not been able to use them as role models because I just couldn't do what they do.

"Others have remained stuck in victimhood, blame, arrogance--my pain is bigger than your so what the F are you complaining about? have gone cold or huddled in fear afraid to try again. "

I feel for those poor souls...they're guaranteeing their stuckness.

To the future and our planned role in it!

WMM
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Old 02-10-14, 06:22 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

[quote=WheresMyMind;1615053]What a wonderful posting, you covered so much ground and did so with great articulation. Too bad the posting software eliminated your paragraph breaks, it would have been a bit easier to read.

WMM, laughing at myself. I'm not in the habit of hitting return twice but working on it for paragraphs.

I worked through a number of other physical factors before starting meds. I think getting these out of the way before starting meds helped. While none may be useful for you, they may give you an idea that will help you find your answers.

I didn't want to start a stimulant until after I had recovered physically from the stress of selling my home, grieving, moving several times, job changes and such. I'd been warned I was off the scale on stress factors and at risk for ulcers at the least, heart issues, stroke and such. I'd been testing my hormones for several years and my cortisol was dropping mid day. You might want to do a 4X saliva test for adrenal function plus blood tests for sex hormones. And get thyroid function checked, the website stop the thyroid madness has good info on what tests and how to interpret, even many endocrinologists are not treating thyroid effectively. I am disgusted that a high priced specialist I went to didn't catch it. I was low normal but didn't look hypo T, lean, active, skin and hair looking healthy but much of that was due to my adrenals working overtime to try to counter it. Getting my thyroid up towards the higher end is optimal for me. Normal range for mean equals feeling like crap. A friend who is a psych nurse said it was common to test many patients for thyroid as low thyroid skews brain function so much.

I've also discovered some dietary oddities that appear to affect a lot of ADDers and autistics. The Feingold diet deals with much of it. I'm sensitive to salicylates--aspirin related compounds and other phenols. These are often highly nutritious compounds like the pigments in blueberries, tomatoes and other things good for us. Some people do not produce as much of the enzymes needed to metabolize them--possibly genetic adaptation to a diet low in plant foods in winter as the highest prevalence is in red-heads--may be Neanderthal gene, and genetic background from British Isles and much of Norther Europe, especially Eastern. I'm a red head, as was my father. His father was from Wales and my mother's background was Polish, Ukranian and German plus she had a red streak in her hair. I have to limit tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, blueberries, strawberries and some herbs such as mint, wintergreen and cloves. I had a bad reaction to a topical ointment with mint and wintergreen so inhaling or topical plus mint toothpaste and mouthwash, mint gum and the like can make me a space cadet quickly.

I also find wheat but not other gluten grains make me spacey. As well as affecting my joints and gut. But not celiac. However getting wheat out--I can tolerate maybe 1 sandwich a week, increased my tolerance to all the above. Getting my thyroid hormones up also helped. Perhaps allows me to make more of the enzymes? Lactose intolerant but cheese, yogurt, butter, cream all ok. Some issues with amines which the blueberries and strawberries are high in as well as salicylates.

You might also check into methylation factors. An area I've not yet learned as much about as I want to. On the list and now I think I'll be able to get through the list enough to get to it. I did 23andme genetic testing and do have a couple of genes that might impair this but nothing homozygous so I have some genes with normal function, enough to do fairly well. 23andme can still do genetic testing, just had to stop with the risk factor interpretation.

I ruled out all the factors I could, limit exposure to the foods and chemicals I know I react to, balanced my hormones, sex and thyroid plus cortisol and DHEA, tried tyrosine and other amino acids and still couldn't get the dang bathroom uncluttered much less the rest of the piles of partially completed projects. YAY! I did the bathroom yesterday without having to work up a ton of adrenaline! No angst! But after all that, I finally admitted I wasn't where I thought I could be and now thought my adrenals could handle a stimulant.

You may also want to check out another sort of brain boosters, neurotropics. There are a number of racetam class OTC supplements that are benefiting at least some people. I suggest the longecity.org website, seems to have a high number of med and biochem students exploring this for study and checking out possible downside. I've found better info there than on other sites. The only ones I've tried have been Adrafinil which converts in the body to the prescription med Modafinil which works for some with ADD and also used for narcolepsy. In doses high enough to have some benefit for me, it was reaching the limit of safety as it has some liver toxicity potential. Not enough benefit for the risk.

The one I do like is Noopept, check peaknootropics.com This was developed to help stroke and traumatic brain injury. Not a stimulant or prescription item in the US. It boosts acetylcholine and seems to help with neurogenesis. No increase in blood pressure or pulse but my senses are sharper, colors brighter, sounds clearer, reflexes, balance and timing better, thoughts seem clearer and train of thought more complete. Tiny tiny doses, comes with a microscoop and 1 to 4 of these 10 mlligram scoops is the usual range. Each person may have a different sweet spot, too small isn't noticable, too much may make you groggy. What you learn while using it goes into long term memory more effectively so even if not using it you can recall it. My performance on my hand drum markedly improved. I didn't tell the people I play with for several rehearsals and then asked if they noticed, YES! 1 now uses it herself.

There is another combination, again all legal OTC components, called CILTEP that appears quite potent at boosting brain function for many. However, some of the herbs in it gave me salicylate/phenol reactions. I may try this again at a lower dose or some of the alternate herbs. the longecity site has a lot of info on it.

You sound like the sort of person who will research potential benefits and contraindications but I do remind people to check for themselves first. It may be that other cognitive boosters besides the usual meds could help.

We all have our physical limits. As much as I'd like not to have to be limited to eating, drinking and breathing, my body insists on doing so consistently. I hope you find answers that help you be the most you can be. It may be a matter of getting something out of your body, heavy metals perhaps? or getting something else into your body or several somethings in a better ratio. Good luck
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Old 02-11-14, 03:04 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

>>I didn't want to start a stimulant until after I had recovered physically from the stress of selling my home, grieving, moving several times, job changes and such.<<

Sounds wise. Back in '94, when I was first DXed as an adult, I just just (two months earlier) split from my ex of almost ten years, then one week later, the industry I was in imploded. I was, in fact, couch-surfing when I got DXed. Nothing stable! I was lost!. The industry I was in was gone. I had to figure out what I could do instead and I prayed, hoped, that if I did have ADHD, that getting the DX and treatment would help me clarify where I could go, and help me focus on going there.

>>I'd been testing my hormones for several years and my cortisol was dropping mid day.<<

Did you perceive that as good or bad? Cortisol is produced by the body to regulate the immune system. High cortisol levels are usually a sign of systemic inflammation, a bad thing. Low cortisol levels are usually indicative of a stable immune and histamine system. Or so I learned about a year ago when I had an oddball bout of systemic inflammation.

BTW, how do you you measure your hormone levels? I'm unaware of a self-check method.

>>You might want to do a 4X saliva test for adrenal function plus blood tests for sex hormones. And get thyroid function checked, the website stop the thyroid madness has good info on what tests and how to interpret, even many endocrinologists are not treating thyroid effectively.<<

Why? What would this lead to? FWIW, when I was experiencing my inflammation issues (which were DXed by symptom), I had regular blood draws and since I told the doc I was re-approaching the whole ADHD thing, she focused on thyroid and said it seemed "robust".

>>I am disgusted that a high priced specialist I went to didn't catch it.<<

Sounds like you're still wrestling with forgiveness. The way I look at it is that when people like doctors only get to see you in the brevity of an office visit, we're asking them to be miracle workers if we expect 100% results. I know what it was like on my jobs - the pressure to achieve results by a certain deadline always means you can't do everything you can. I don't forgive any of my doctors, I feel lucky that I got any of their time at all.

>>I was low normal but didn't look hypo T<<

Can you give me a clue to the symptoms that would lead you to do all this investigation? What changes were you hoping to effect?

>>much of that was due to my adrenals working overtime to try to counter it.<<

And this knowledge was gained through a blood test, or what?

>>I've also discovered some dietary oddities that appear to affect a lot of ADDers and autistics. The Feingold diet deals with much of it. I'm sensitive to salicylates--aspirin related compounds and other phenols. These are often highly nutritious compounds like the pigments in blueberries, tomatoes and other things good for us. Some people do not produce as much of the enzymes needed to metabolize them--possibly genetic adaptation to a diet low in plant foods in winter as the highest prevalence is in red-heads--may be Neanderthal gene, and genetic background from British Isles and much of Norther Europe, especially Eastern. I'm a red head, as was my father. His father was from Wales and my mother's background was Polish, Ukranian and German plus she had a red streak in her hair. I have to limit tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, blueberries, strawberries and some herbs such as mint, wintergreen and cloves.<<

What are the symptoms? I'm a former redhead, now gray/white.

>>I also find wheat but not other gluten grains make me spacey. As well as affecting my joints and gut. But not celiac. However getting wheat out--I can tolerate maybe 1 sandwich a week<<

I haven't had bread or pasta in my diet in decades, except for an occasional indulgence. Morning grain is oats. I have read that wheat is so hybridized that when you consume any of it, you are exposed to all the varying forms of the DNA, and most people have some sort of measurable reaction. I never detected a reaction, I just quit consuming overly calorically dense foods, and bread and pasta are at the top of the list.

>>You might also check into methylation factors.<<

Again, what symptoms would lead to the need to spend time and money doing so?

>>I ruled out all the factors I could, limit exposure to the foods and chemicals I know I react to,<<

What are the symptoms of these reactions? What should I be looking for?

What I know as reactions:
- Dairy of any form can lead to congestion and a histamine reaction. If we're in allergy season, it will make it worse. Also makes my cholesterol skyrocket, literally overnight
- If I want to maintain my weight control, I have to avoid calorically dense foods, and sugars, whether naturally occurring or not. So, my fruit consumption is fairly low

>>tried tyrosine and other amino acids and still couldn't get the dang bathroom uncluttered much less the rest of the piles of partially completed projects.<<

I think I'm coming to a realization about clutter in my house:
- the bathroom isn't mine. That's someone else's.
- Any flat horizontal surface in the house is also not mine. I can unclutter it all I want, and stuff just grows there, the projects not being mine.
- As to the things that ARE mine, I basically take on too many things; I am always searching for that magic thing I can do that will open the doors to a job/career path that I actually LIKE, that does not exercise all of my weaknesses at once, and that will please other people well enough to pay me to do it...or buy my products or services if I choose to start my own gig.


>>You may also want to check out another sort of brain boosters, neurotropics. There are a number of racetam class OTC supplements that are benefiting at least some people. I suggest the longecity.org website, seems to have a high number of med and biochem students exploring this for study and checking out possible downside. I've found better info there than on other sites. The only ones I've tried have been Adrafinil which converts in the body to the prescription med Modafinil which works for some with ADD and also used for narcolepsy. In doses high enough to have some benefit for me, it was reaching the limit of safety as it has some liver toxicity potential. Not enough benefit for the risk.<<

I looked up the word "neurotropics" just enough to get a sense. They're proteins. The brain's neurotransmitters are made of protein chains, therefore the potential for a connection with ADHD is established, but not proven.

I had one therapist mention to me that when they do neurofeedback therapy on people with ADHD, they can identify vegetarians immediately; these will be the people who are unable to voluntarily affect their alpha waves. The prevailing belief is that, since ADHD is believed to be caused by neurotransmitter deficiencies, and neurotransmitters are made of proteins, those with ADHD need to have high protein diets. I am a vegetarian: I like my overall body sense better without meat. There is no form of meat that doesn't make my stomach feel "heavy"...not painful, though.

I wish there was a quick test I could do to test my brain function; then it would seem so easy to do these diet/result tests.

>>The one I do like is Noopept, check peaknootropics.com This was developed to help stroke and traumatic brain injury. Not a stimulant or prescription item in the US. It boosts acetylcholine and seems to help with neurogenesis. No increase in blood pressure or pulse but my senses are sharper, colors brighter, sounds clearer, reflexes, balance and timing better, thoughts seem clearer and train of thought more complete<<

Hmmm...part of why I feel like a ball in a pinball machine is my highly senstive senses...sounds, lights, movement, shapes - all very much distract me. My timing stinks, though.

>>Tiny tiny doses, comes with a microscoop and 1 to 4 of these 10 mlligram scoops is the usual range. Each person may have a different sweet spot, too small isn't noticable, too much may make you groggy. What you learn while using it goes into long term memory more effectively so even if not using it you can recall it. My performance on my hand drum markedly improved. I didn't tell the people I play with for several rehearsals and then asked if they noticed, YES! 1 now uses it herself. <<

I seem to have good rhythm by myself, but when in a band setting, I'm always trying to figure out who's leading the rhythm and follow them. As is the case in most amateur bands, nobody thinks to announce "on this song, we'll be following Larry's lead on bass." LOL. I don't have long term memory problems, but do suffer the classic ADHD "working memory" problem - I remember stuff, just not at the right time to take proper action on them.

>>There is another combination, again all legal OTC components, called CILTEP that appears quite potent at boosting brain function for many. However, some of the herbs in it gave me salicylate/phenol reactions. I may try this again at a lower dose or some of the alternate herbs. the longecity site has a lot of info on it. <<

No time now, but I've set a tickler on my to-do list to look into all this.


>>You sound like the sort of person who will research potential benefits and contraindications but I do remind people to check for themselves first. It may be that other cognitive boosters besides the usual meds could help. <<

Being of a "does it really work" mindest, what I focus on the most is the litmus test - what is it supposed to do, and how can you definitely say that it's doing so.

99% of the time, I have no emotional issues. Anxiety, etc...there are normal levels, which spur us into action to change things. I'd say that's where I am most of the time.

What I haven't resolved is this "working memory" issue. I know some people who are well organized and I ask them how they do it. The answer is invariably "I don't know how people can not do it". They don't have to-do lists, they don't keep track of their time, somehow their brains automatically organize what they have to do today in the right sequence. They clearly have something that I don't, and I think I have to do two things:

1) Find suitable ventures that require less of whatever I don't have
2) Supplement what I don't have with tools of some sort

>>We all have our physical limits. As much as I'd like not to have to be limited to eating, drinking and breathing, my body insists on doing so consistently. I hope you find answers that help you be the most you can be. It may be a matter of getting something out of your body, heavy metals perhaps? or getting something else into your body or several somethings in a better ratio. Good luck<<

How's that working for you? It seems you've put a tremendous amount of time, money and effort into supplements, hormonal control, etc. Can you say that you're at a dramatically different performance potential than before, or is it more evolutionary?

At some point, I always recognize that I could spend all my time figuring out how to perform better, but at the end of the day, I have to actually DO something, else I'm performing nothing at all, LOL!

WMM
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Old 02-11-14, 06:20 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

WMM
>>I'd been testing my hormones for several years and my cortisol was dropping mid day.<<

Did you perceive that as good or bad? Cortisol is produced by the body to regulate the immune system. High cortisol levels are usually a sign of systemic inflammation, a bad thing. Low cortisol levels are usually indicative of a stable immune and histamine system. Or so I learned about a year ago when I had an oddball bout of systemic inflammation.

>>>>>
Low cortisol for me is much worse feeling than high. Like so many things, it has to be the right amount at the right time and the right place. More attention has been in the media on high cortisol, and yes, too much too long is very hard on the body but too low is dangerous also. For me, low cortisol results in low blood pressure which alone is enough to give brain fog, low blood sugar and over reaction to histamine triggers such as insect bites, pollen--don't think I have true allergies but mast cell reaction that act much like allergies, changes in temperature can be a trigger as well as high histamine foods in excess and potatoes/tomatoes which cause my joints to swell. If my nose starts to drop it is often a sign other low cortisol symptoms are on the way. I usually head them off wilh low dose C.

BTW, how do you you measure your hormone levels? I'm unaware of a self-check method.

<<<< saliva testing is still best for cortisol as you do it at home and can do a morning, noon, late afternoon and bedtime test. check zrt labs. A few states limit doing it yourself but this can be worked around if you have someone in another state receive the test, forward it to you and get your results, available online in a week or so and a hard copy gets sent to the address the kit went to. Blood testing is better for sex hormones and thyroid. the stop the thyroid madness site has links on how to get this done yourself. requires going to a lab for a blood draw. I think lab corp is the contracting lab in much of the country.


>>You might want to do a 4X saliva test for adrenal function plus blood tests for sex hormones. And get thyroid function checked, the website stop the thyroid madness has good info on what tests and how to interpret, even many endocrinologists are not treating thyroid effectively.<<

Why? What would this lead to? FWIW, when I was experiencing my inflammation issues (which were DXed by symptom), I had regular blood draws and since I told the doc I was re-approaching the whole ADHD thing, she focused on thyroid and said it seemed "robust".
<<<<<< Most docs focus on antibodies and T4 levels not the T3 that is the usable form. T4 is the storage form. There can be plenty of T4 but not enough cortisol won't allow it to get into the cells and too much cortisol may cause it to convert T4 to T3 in excess at one time causing the body to dump T3 into RT3 the form used to excrete excess from the body. Other factors can interfere also. Ferritin, Vit. D, magnesium, in appropriate levels and ratios. Most docs use 'normal' ranges which are not optimal with symptoms for many. I was low normal but don't feel right until high normal. The high priced specialist didn't catch this either. If thyroid, cortisol, DHEA and sex hormones are not optimal, neurochemicals may be abundant but can't be utilized well.

>>I am disgusted that a high priced specialist I went to didn't catch it.<<

Sounds like you're still wrestling with forgiveness. The way I look at it is that when people like doctors only get to see you in the brevity of an office visit, we're asking them to be miracle workers if we expect 100% results. I know what it was like on my jobs - the pressure to achieve results by a certain deadline always means you can't do everything you can. I don't forgive any of my doctors, I feel lucky that I got any of their time at all.

<<<< this doc charged $350 for an hour long consult on top of the extensive testing I had already done on my own and we discussed thyroid as I had some symptoms such a cold intolerance which was new to me, I had lifelong good cold tolerance, a good thing as I spent most of my life in places with long cold winters. I really did expect someone who treats thyroid and claims expertise to have caught it.

>>I was low normal but didn't look hypo T<<

Can you give me a clue to the symptoms that would lead you to do all this investigation? What changes were you hoping to effect?

<<<< the cold intolerance, sluggishness physically and mentally that was new. I could get active but it was hard work and meant revving up adrenaline causing a crash later. Starting to get some thickening of the skin--due to fluid collecting in cells which can also cause voices to deepen when it hits vocal cords. There is a video online showing a 'pinch test' on the upper arm, normal vs hypo T. I failed it when first starting T treatment but now pass the pinch test. I didn't just feel cold, my temperature was hovering in the mid 97 range and didn't rise above 98 even after exercise. I now am usually above 98 on rising and close to 98.6 most of the day. The sluggishness also went away.

>>much of that was due to my adrenals working overtime to try to counter it.<<

And this knowledge was gained through a blood test, or what?

<<<<< My usual 4X test showed high am and evening but falling noon late afternoon levels. Using hydrocortisone or ACE countered this effect. Hmm, don't recall which thyroid source had the info but a small percent of hypo T people, especially children show a pattern of looking hyper T at times and then swinging to sluggish and back again as adrenals recover and weaken again. both circadian patterns and longer cycles when stress increase/decreases. Selye did the early work on physiological stress effects and found adrenals would first enlarge and produce a surge of cortisol and then start to whipsaw, show signs of damage and eventually atrophy. If caught before damage is extensive, they can often recover to near normal. Too far and Addison's sets in requiring life long medication to prevent dropping dead from a quick dash to cross a street and such.

>>I've also discovered some dietary oddities that appear to affect a lot of ADDers and autistics. The Feingold diet deals with much of it. I'm sensitive to salicylates--aspirin related compounds and other phenols. These are often highly nutritious compounds like the pigments in blueberries, tomatoes and other things good for us. Some people do not produce as much of the enzymes needed to metabolize them--possibly genetic adaptation to a diet low in plant foods in winter as the highest prevalence is in red-heads--may be Neanderthal gene, and genetic background from British Isles and much of Norther Europe, especially Eastern. I'm a red head, as was my father. His father was from Wales and my mother's background was Polish, Ukranian and German plus she had a red streak in her hair. I have to limit tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, blueberries, strawberries and some herbs such as mint, wintergreen and cloves.<<

What are the symptoms? I'm a former redhead, now gray/white.
<<< I've gone blonde instead of gray, something else to blame my ditziness on. For me, about an hour after eating a particular sort of brain fog, feeling of tightness in my head, ringing in my ears, visual distortion--trouble changing focus quickly, dizziness and a peculiar feeling of heaviness in my legs, most noticeable climbing stairs, no weakness, increase in pulse or respiration, mood changes, becoming very self critical and if bad enough I need to go lay down and DO NOT DRIVE. Ringing in my ears, reflexes affected and some nausea. Generally clears in a couple of hours unless exposure was very heavy. Worst incident that led to tracking this down was taking 3 Advil--aspirin class, within limits of Motrin dosage but scared me enough I almost went to the ER. Remembered I have had aspirin intolerance in the past with high doses but seldom needed it in such large doses. This felt like some of the things I was getting with food, an hour after eating breakfast with tomatoes, potatoes and peppers in a scramble, my worst offenders. check salicylatesensitivy.com or dot org. has some info on other sensitivities also. many cosmetics and cleaning products are offenders also.


>>You might also check into methylation factors.<<

Again, what symptoms would lead to the need to spend time and money doing so?
<<<< this can mess with quite a few body systems as methionine and SAM-e are affected. Depression and joint swelling can both be caused by insufficient SAM-e and quite a bit more such as being negatively affected by some forms of B12 and folate/folic acid, pregnancy issues, heart disease, IBS. Hmm, I think I'll have to review my testing. just found this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...msv08p0523.pdf a link with one SNP and ADHD from this site. http://mthfr.net/mthfr-research/2012/01/27/ this last link is a pretty readable site to get you started. symptoms too widespread to list. but it is an area becoming more well known and if several gene variants are suboptimal, some enzyme production may be less than 10% of normal genes.

>>I ruled out all the factors I could, limit exposure to the foods and chemicals I know I react to,<<

What are the symptoms of these reactions? What should I be looking for?
<<< the salicylate sensitivity website is a good start, individual reactions can vary quite a bit and may have a time lag of several days, a food diary helps. I get back reactions walking through some stores with a lot of plastic, cleaning product, garden and tire products odors. 15 minutes in walmart is tops, I start to get dizzy, have trouble concentrating and nauseated.
What I know as reactions:

- If I want to maintain my weight control, I have to avoid calorically dense foods, and sugars, whether naturally occurring or not. So, my fruit consumption is fairly low

<<< sounds like possible hypo thyroid. I can eat all I want, but generally only want good food as my body smacks me for junk food. Never had too much problem with weight but was picking up some before starting thyroid med. wasn't exercising as much because exercise was harder but metabolism also sluggish, oh and for only time in my life had good cholesterol but high triglycerides which can be due to hypo T.


- As to the things that ARE mine, I basically take on too many things; I am always searching for that magic thing I can do that will open the doors to a job/career path that I actually LIKE, that does not exercise all of my weaknesses at once, and that will please other people well enough to pay me to do it...or buy my products or services if I choose to start my own gig.
<<<<< LMAO, I take on too many things for the fun of it. I have a pile of leather projects started with people asking me to please make them a belt buckle out of alligator with blue green color shift paint or a cuff out of cobra with shark teeth and a matching hair clip.



I looked up the word "neurotropics" just enough to get a sense. They're proteins. The brain's neurotransmitters are made of protein chains, therefore the potential for a connection with ADHD is established, but not proven.

<<< there are some that may affect neuropeptieds, NT's and perhaps more but some of the herbal and other supplements or prescription ones are not all proteins or amino acids. They may work on stimulating or converting but not all proteins. Neurotropic is more usually defined as a substance that enhances neurological function, can be by stimulating neurogenesis and/or neurochemicals.

I had one therapist mention to me that when they do neurofeedback therapy on people with ADHD, they can identify vegetarians immediately; these will be the people who are unable to voluntarily affect their alpha waves. The prevailing belief is that, since ADHD is believed to be caused by neurotransmitter deficiencies, and neurotransmitters are made of proteins, those with ADHD need to have high protein diets. I am a vegetarian: I like my overall body sense better without meat. There is no form of meat that doesn't make my stomach feel "heavy"...not painful, though.

<<<< I tried going meat free for a year and felt like crap. ADHD may be more than deficiencies of NT's as available NT levels do not mean they are being transported well, transported to the right place at the right time and that the receptors can uptake them well. I think it is a variant of the DRD2 receptor that is linked to thrill seeking as this receptor isn't as sensitive as most and adrenaline helps force the dopamine into the receptor. Excess dopamine in the wrong part of the brain can lead to psychosis. The whole pathway needs to work well. This is why I've heard that NT level testing isn't very useful. The amounts detected may not get where they need to or be utilized once there.


>>The one I do like is Noopept, check peaknootropics.com This was developed to help stroke and traumatic brain injury. Not a stimulant or prescription item in the US. It boosts acetylcholine and seems to help with neurogenesis. No increase in blood pressure or pulse but my senses are sharper, colors brighter, sounds clearer, reflexes, balance and timing better, thoughts seem clearer and train of thought more complete<<

Hmmm...part of why I feel like a ball in a pinball machine is my highly senstive senses...sounds, lights, movement, shapes - all very much distract me. My timing stinks, though.
<<< my senses are quite acute, especially hearing. At 58 to have hearing that is acute for all but the highest frequencies and now playing music with others, I'm delighted. When highly stressed, I easily overload and am especially sensitive to bitter odors. The noopept doesn't overload me, it is a bit calming overall and seems to help me pick and choose what to notice. Several of the racetam class nootropics are used by athletes for performance enhancement. Not so much strength or endurance but reflexes, awareness and cognitive performance. The first public music 'performance' I was in, as opposed to bluegrass jams and drum circles, I had only had the noopept for 2 weeks, it kept me calmer and more on track than I'd have been without it. I've done other sorts of performances or demonstrations and my stage fright was much reduced even though most of the others were in areas I was more proficient than I currently am musically.


I seem to have good rhythm by myself, but when in a band setting, I'm always trying to figure out who's leading the rhythm and follow them. As is the case in most amateur bands, nobody thinks to announce "on this song, we'll be following Larry's lead on bass." LOL. I don't have long term memory problems, but do suffer the classic ADHD "working memory" problem - I remember stuff, just not at the right time to take proper action on them.
<<< most of my experience had been with other strong rhythm players. Going to a trio as the only rhythm revealed my weak areas. I couldn't hang back and follow but hold steady or drive/slow the others. The noopept helped a lot and an herbal product that boosts norepinephrine, olive leaf extract, also helps keep me going when I have to hold a steady repetitive pattern that is boring, that's when I zone out. Both help but not enough and the OLE long term starts to give me sensitivity problems. I save it for critical practice or performance. Only a few days on Ritalin shows it is giving me something needed that neither of the others do.


Being of a "does it really work" mindest, what I focus on the most is the litmus test - what is it supposed to do, and how can you definitely say that it's doing so.
<<<< how do you know? one of the most important questions ever.

How's that working for you? It seems you've put a tremendous amount of time, money and effort into supplements, hormonal control, etc. Can you say that you're at a dramatically different performance potential than before, or is it more evolutionary?

<<<<< all of this has helped noticeably. limiting wheat and getting thyroid treatment have increased my tolerance for salicylates and chemical exposure, I can tolerate walmart a bit longer when I can't avoid going there.. I can have a few tomatoes a week without reacting. If I were to stop the hormones, eat pizza for a week and skip my B6, zinc and magnesium for pyroluria--did I forget that one? blood factor that pulls those from blood when I need them most under stress. cognitive emotional symptoms show up first but then white spots appear on fingernails, sign of zinc deficiency. My reflexes, mental focus, driving ability, mood, endurance, strength, timing would all be impacted. I've not had to go cold turkey with this and shudder to think of it. Once had unavoidable 2 days of pizza for dinner, leftovers for breakfast and lunch. Had to switch drivers after lunch for safety. took 24 hours to recover.
This is all easy for me to do. highly motivating to keep doing it as I don't like the consequences.


At some point, I always recognize that I could spend all my time figuring out how to perform better, but at the end of the day, I have to actually DO something, else I'm performing nothing at all, LOL!

WMM

<<<< yes, and that is one of the things the Ritalin is helping me do without having to get a big shot of adrenaline first.
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  #90  
Old 02-12-14, 07:17 PM
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Re: The Grief process after being diagnosed with Adult ADD/ADHD.

WMM
>>>>>Low cortisol for me is much worse feeling than high..... brain fog,....over reaction to.... insect bites, pollen.... joints ... swell.<<<<<<

Ah, OK. I never have felt "brain fog" except when I first wake up. I have always attributed to low blood pressure, which results from low resting pulse, not necessarily a bad thing. Consistent through life. Only joint swelling I've ever experience has been due to injury.


<<<<<< Most docs focus on antibodies and T4 levels not the T3 that is the usable form. T4 is the storage form. There can be plenty of T4 but not enough cortisol won't allow it to get into the cells and too much cortisol may cause it to convert T4 to T3 in excess at one time causing the body to dump T3 into RT3 the form used to excrete excess from the body. Other factors can interfere also. Ferritin, Vit. D, magnesium, in appropriate levels and ratios. Most docs use 'normal' ranges which are not optimal with symptoms for many. I was low normal but don't feel right until high normal. The high priced specialist didn't catch this either. If thyroid, cortisol, DHEA and sex hormones are not optimal, neurochemicals may be abundant but can't be utilized well.>>>>>

OK, but what are the symptoms that such an exercise is attempting to relieve? Before I bother to spend time on something, I want to at least have a clue what benefits I might enjoy if it works. Without knowing that minimum, I obviously have no way to know if the methods are working as expected.

<<<< this doc charged $350 for an hour long consult on top of the extensive testing I had already done on my own and we discussed thyroid as I had some symptoms such a cold intolerance which was new to me, I had lifelong good cold tolerance, a good thing as I spent most of my life in places with long cold winters. I really did expect someone who treats thyroid and claims expertise to have caught it. >>>>

Hasn't been my experience in any profession. A great magical thing that one can do in marketing is this: promote yourself as a rare specialist in just one small thing, and charge a whole lot. You don't actually have to be good, people assume that you get what you pay for, especially if you claim to be the "expert" they've always needed. 90% of the people feel better simply having seen the expensive person. Of all the times that I've spent extra for a "professional", the only time I actually believe that I got better/more useful/more accurate service was an attorney.

The first ADHD doc I ever saw was the most expensive. I didn't know what to expect, but having been to other since, I now realize that he was not treating me as a person but as an ailment - and as such, I got exactly the same treatment as all others in his care. ADHD was the only thing he treated and it was not individualized in the least.

<<<< the cold intolerance>>>>>

Amusing at my house. The SO fosters dogs and is under the believe that they need it very hot. The main room is in the mid-70s most of the time. I feel like I'm living on the surface of the sun. I'll head outside in shorts and a t-shirt when it's 20 degrees, for relief.

<<<< sluggishness physically and mentally that was new.>>>>>

Ah, "new"...a keyword that I hadn't considered until this moment. None of the stuff I'd like to see different is new. I've never had good working memory, I've never been good at knowing much much I can accomplish in a given time, and I've always been late on projects. Since the first day I had my first project, which must have been the first time mom said "clean your room".

<<<<< I could get active but it was hard work>>>>>

That's not new to me. The Adderall helps me get going sooner in the morning, at least.

There's a pop star who is legendary for drinking and drugging and it is astonishing that he is still alive. Shane MacGowan of the Pogues. One of his band-mates said the substance abuse isn't the real issue it's his "geospatial inertia". By that, he means that once Shane is situated somewhere...a bar stool, a bus seat, a couch in front of a TV, or behind a microphone on stage...it is extremely hard to get him away from it and into a new situation. I'm kinda like that.

Once I start checking email, I feel it's never done and I stay in front of the computer too long. Then when I don my running shorts and head out for what I wish were a daily 10 miler, I don't want to stop. Plan for 4-5 miles, but just keep going and drag myself back home stiff and sore after 15 miles. And with inadequate time left in the day to get anything else done.

>>There is a video online showing a 'pinch test' on the upper arm, normal vs hypo T<<<

Hmmm...the only vid I was able to find was a woman showing a pinch test on herself, her husband and young daughter. But the test shown in this case is identical to one that obesity clinics use to determine if the excess adipose tissue is subcutaneous versus intra-muscular - which gives clues as to the dietary cause of the adipose tissue. The woman in the vid was overweight, the other two not. So, she "failed" the pinch test, but at her weight, most people would, irrespective of thyroid function. BTW, I pass, by that vid's standards.

>>> Too far and Addison's sets in requiring life long medication to prevent dropping dead from a quick dash to cross a street and such.<<<<

I've once been so underweight that my organs failed to work correctly. I woke up one morning and could not move. It was quite frightening. Passed out expecting to die but woke up an hour later, my entire body aching mightily, but I was able to drag myself out of bed.

Called the doc (I had just started taking stims for ADHD, in '94 and was underweight at the start of it) and he observed that he'd noticed me losing weight. He said step on the scale, and I reported the weight. He said no way you should be that little, I want you to put on 20 pounds. With inadequate adipose tissue, the organs don't respond well to the normal electrical signals they get, and hormones don't get produced adequately. I was basically out of adrenaline.

<<< I've gone blonde instead of gray, something else to blame my ditziness on. >>>>

I was more of a straw blonde, not fully redhead, and I got more blonde each year. I can't really get away with calling it blonde any more.

<<>>>

Wow. The worst reactions I have ever observed from food are getting too revved if there are high sugar levels, or the heavy stomach I get from meat, and congestion from dairy. All of which, under controlled conditions, can be measured in 100% of the population.

I've had ringing in my ears for decades but it's hard to tell how much is normal versus age. We all get it. A recent hearing test shows that my hearing is way above average for my age.

Because I tore a muscle ten years ago, I sometimes go on a heavy course of aspirin for a few weeks, because I can detect when it's on the verge of a spasm...and those are debilitating. Can't think of every noting a symptom.

>>>many cosmetics and cleaning products are offenders also.<<<<

I simply dislike the smell of chemicals, so cosmetics, perfumes, colognes, most cleaning chemicals - these have never been a part of my routine life. I can't stand the smell of new cars, for instance. Can't stand being in any store with a lot of plastic products. I don't react in any physical way, I just find it unpleasant, the way some people can't stand this or that form of music. I'm equally bothered by shopping malls with the multiple mirrored surfaces and excessive lighting. I often wonder if that's not intended to lead to a certain level of sensory overload, and reduce people's ability to discipline themselves, thus spending more. This stuff doesn't cause physiological effects, it's simply offensive to my senses. That's why I live in the country - any smells out here tend to at least be natural.

>>You might also check into methylation factors.<<

Again, what symptoms would lead to the need to spend time and money doing so?

<<<<......Depression and joint swelling.....

http://mthfr.net/mthfr-research/2012/01/27/ this last link is a pretty readable site >>>>

Holy crap. If that's what you call a readable site, then I don't need to look at any others!!! Actually, the page you linked to seems to presume that you already know what MTHFR is or its symptoms, but I drove around long enough to find the home page. I exhibit none of the symptoms, and the home page purports that the only thing that can be done is pre-natal and I'm many decades past that, so I surmise I needn't pursue it further.

What I know as reactions:

- If I want to maintain my weight control, I have to avoid calorically dense foods, and sugars, whether naturally occurring or not. So, my fruit consumption is fairly low

<<< sounds like possible hypo thyroid. I can eat all I want>>>

Really? I'd guess that if you consume 1000 calories per day more than you need, you will gain weight.

I'm smaller than the average adult, therefore classic "serving sizes" are too much for me. I have determined, scientifically, my BMR at 1800 calories per day. That rules out all restaurant food, naturally, and most high-sugar fruits in much quantity.

- As to the things that ARE mine, I basically take on too many things; I am always searching for that magic thing I can do that will open the doors to a job/career path that I actually LIKE, that does not exercise all of my weaknesses at once, and that will please other people well enough to pay me to do it...or buy my products or services if I choose to start my own gig.
<<<<< LMAO, I take on too many things for the fun of it. I have a pile of leather projects started with people asking me to please make them a belt buckle out of alligator with blue green color shift paint or a cuff out of cobra with shark teeth and a matching hair clip. >>>

It's what's gotten me fired so many times. Not saying "no".

<<<< I tried going meat free for a year and felt like crap.>>>>>

In this context, can you define "crap"? Low energy? Vulnerable to illness? Angry/depressed?

<<>>

Variations on a theme, really. The general belief is that the brain generates neurotransmitters in generally way excess quantities, specifically because the receptor mechanisms don't collect much of them. Whether the production rate is low or the reception rate is low, improving either one would help. The reason why a reuptake mechanism exists in the first place is because of the intentional overproduction.

Hmmm...part of why I feel like a ball in a pinball machine is my highly senstive senses...sounds, lights, movement, shapes - all very much distract me. My timing stinks, though.

<<< my senses are quite acute, especially hearing.>>>

The point I was making is that I would not want mine any sharper - it would be more distracting. So, it's not a symptom I feel the need to treat.

I don't think of my sense of smell as particularly great, except that I know when I'm within 5 miles of a city because I can smell the food rotting in dumpsters behind restaurants from that distance.

>>>When highly stressed, I easily overload and am especially sensitive to bitter odors. The noopept doesn't overload me, it is a bit calming overall and seems to help me pick and choose what to notice.<<<

I don't really stress. Got over that years ago, by intent. I do experience anxiety almost any time I look at my to-do list, though. But the kinds of things that people say stresses them - I don't even identify. Some things, I never did. For instance, I cannot think, ever, of a situation in traffic where someone else's behavior upset me. Sure, people blow stop signs, they pull out in front of me because they didn't see me (I drove a low-slung dark-colored sedan, so I should expect this), they drive too fast for conditions. But that doesn't upset me; everybody knows that driving is not something you just get in and do the same way every time, you always have to adapt to the road, the weather and other drivers. So you do. Taxes went up? Why get upset? They always do, so be ready.

>>Several of the racetam class nootropics are used by athletes for performance enhancement. Not so much strength or endurance but reflexes, awareness and cognitive performance. The first public music 'performance' I was in, as opposed to bluegrass jams and drum circles, I had only had the noopept for 2 weeks, it kept me calmer and more on track than I'd have been without it. I've done other sorts of performances or demonstrations and my stage fright was much reduced even though most of the others were in areas I was more proficient than I currently am musically. <<

Well, I'm not musically proficient, so my expectations of myself are not high. I've never had stage fright, not once.

Being of a "does it really work" mindest, what I focus on the most is the litmus test - what is it supposed to do, and how can you definitely say that it's doing so.
<<<< how do you know? one of the most important questions ever.
That's my repetitive questions about symptoms and what are you trying to resolve - other than more discussions of internal chemistry.

<<<<< all of this has helped noticeably. limiting wheat and getting thyroid treatment have increased my tolerance for salicylates and chemical exposure, I can tolerate walmart a bit longer when I can't avoid going there.. I can have a few tomatoes a week without reacting. If I were to stop the hormones, eat pizza for a week and skip my B6, zinc and magnesium for pyroluria--did I forget that one? blood factor that pulls those from blood when I need them most under stress. cognitive emotional symptoms show up first but then white spots appear on fingernails, sign of zinc deficiency. My reflexes, mental focus, driving ability, mood, endurance, strength, timing would all be impacted. I've not had to go cold turkey with this and shudder to think of it. Once had unavoidable 2 days of pizza for dinner, leftovers for breakfast and lunch. Had to switch drivers after lunch for safety. took 24 hours to recover.
This is all easy for me to do. highly motivating to keep doing it as I don't like the consequences.>>>>

Well, I feel for you. That's a dreadful lot of symptoms, leading you to have to deal with stuff that's way too complicated for the typical ADHD mind to keep straight. I'm irritated that to avoid muscle cramping, I'm taking a vit and mineral supp every day! Some of the concoctions that people were talking about on the websites you reference made me envision alchemists with beakers and thick books, never knowing when the accidental combination goes nuclear. I don't think I could perform an effective job search if I went so far as attempting to digest 5% of those references!

Hope you find your peace.

WMM


At some point, I always recognize that I could spend all my time figuring out how to perform better, but at the end of the day, I have to actually DO something, else I'm performing nothing at all, LOL!

WMM

<<<< yes, and that is one of the things the Ritalin is helping me do without having to get a big shot of adrenaline first.
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