Marijuana Reality Check

[Vero]

Hi to All on the Boards,
I would like to respond to the post regarding using marijuana to treat ADHD. I was just diagnosed 5 months ago (I'm 29) with ADHD and I was a long time user of pot (10 years - pretty much daily the whole time).

When I started on Strattera my doctor told me I was forbidden to smoke pot anymore and here's the reason why.... Strattera, as well as most other ADHD meds targets certain neurotransmitter receptors in the brain. The reason pot seems to help ADHD is because THC also targets those same neurotransmitter receptors and fills them with THC.

If you are on meds for your ADHD, pot will take dominance over your receptors and literally kick the meds out of there. Then your meds end up getting metabolized by your body and not used for their intended good purpose. Also, THC will stay in your system for several days after you smoke and screw up your meds for those several days afterwards.

In a way pot does help certain aspects of ADHD, but unfortunately, and I DO mean unfortunately, it is not a substitute for real medication. It does not contain the same chemical properties as ADHD meds do and does not create the same positive long term effects.

There are also 61 other chemical agents in pot that go to work on your brain in very negative ways. Pot can also cause decreased sperm count and deformed ovum.

Long story short.... (too late) pot is not good to use as medication for ADHD. There are too many other negative side effects (aside from the void in your wallet and the fact that it's illegal) to use it as a substitute for real medication.

A good analogy would be if you had a air leak in a tire. Smoking pot is like trying to repair a leaking tire by continuosly filling it up with more air. You still have air in your tire, but the air is still leaking out. Using meds to help ADHD is like buying a brand new tire.

I firmly believe that one day some genious doctor/scientist will extract the beneficial elements of marijuana and give it to us to help our ADHD. But until that day comes, stick to the meds. They will help you way more than any other substance. We all have incredible brains and the only way to unlock the true potential in there is with doctor prescribed meds.

I hope no one thinks I am preaching here, but my boyfriend just started Strattera and will not quit smoking pot. So I'm a little fired up about the subject right now. He's not feeling the effects of the meds yet and starting to think that they don't work. When really they would work if he would just stop smoking pot!!!

I feel like a much more productive and functional member of society since I quit the reefer. With Strattera I haven't even wanted to smoke. Plus I'm not paranoid that people at my job will find out I'm a pothead anymore. It's nice to be free of the vice!

Regards,
Vero

[paulbf]

Everyone is different. He might also need different meds or a different combo of meds. With Effexor, I don't feel the need to drink or smoke. That wasn't true with other meds. I've always loved smoking pot but have given it up mostly in recent years on & off as it's hard to get motivated or concentrate. Then I took up drinking more because at least that wears off quickly & I don't want it during the day like pot.

Bottom line is he's got to make the descision somehow.

[Tara]

Wendy Richardson did a great presentation at the ADDA Conferene last month. Some of the research about marijuana and AD/HD that she discussed surprised me.

1. Marijuana is highly additive to people with AD/HD (psyhologically). I also just read in the book Answers to Distraction that marijuana is probably to most additicve drug to teens with AD/HD.

2. People w/ AD/HD who are chronic users of marijuana exhibit anti-social behavior. Telling lies is a huge issue.

3. Marijuana does have stimulating affect in people w/ AD/HD.

I know that there was some other stuff but I can't remember it.

[Vero]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies. I was definitely addicted to smoking pot. And it had a stimulating effect on me. My routine was to come home from work, smoke a bit and then clean my house or do whatever chores I needed to do. My doctor said that it still has a calming effect on people with ADHD. The reason I liked it so much was I would come home from work exhausted because my brain was working overtime all day, and the pot helped me bring it down to normal speed and focus. I have always been more of an introvert; my boyfriend is ironically the total opposite. He has a big circle of "influencing" friends who all smoke pot too. For me, quitting pot was a lot easier because the meds worked right away for me and I didn't feel the need to smoke. Also, I don't have as many friends as he does - and I have never been the type to "follow the herd" so I can say no a lot easier than he can. My doctor says he can go for "assertiveness therapy" to teach him to be more assertive with his friends. But for now they said jump and he says how "high".

My hopes are that he will find meds that work for him and he will come out of the fog he's been walking around in for the past 30 years. I've been with him for 2 years and we really are in love, so I figure I've waited this long for something to change - I can wait a little longer. It's taken him a long time to even admit that something is wrong, let alone go for the evaluation & follow up therapy. His journey is just starting though and he's not getting off on the right foot. I know he has to make the decision for himself to get better and quit smoking pot, but it's frustrating to sit on the sidelines and watch.

He also drinks alot too which is another issue I have. I try to not make a big deal and I hate feeling like I am preaching to him. He's in a band that plays in bars every weekend so the drinking is even harder for him to avoid.

Anyway, thanks for the input - it's nice to talk to people who understand!

[Ian]

I'm all about keeping the meds to a minimum. Great post Vero. Preaching.. not a chance. That had the strength of it's convictions. I crave that commitment. Thank-you. Risk! Outstanding.

I'm in those shoes just now. I'm not suffering that I can see but I will take heed. I apprecite your commentary. Please interfer with my life at will.

Tara thanks for the info and references. This is all feeling a bit woogy. I must focus now. Laughing all the while. I'm getting much better at changing gears in midstream.

I wonder how long it would be before I should be showing symptoms or maybe with my lame skills I'm waving red flags and not noticing. Anyone hazard a guess on that one?

I feel as strong right now as I've felt in years. I don't feel very vulnerable but maybe I'm just headed for trouble. I don't know. I don't like my throat and lungs being assaulted.

The dex that I'm on is so smooth it's remarkable. Clean I guess is how I might also put it. I love it that it's been around so long. It's thirty years old or something like that I think. No big health risks as it appears to me.

Anyway I'm rambling now.

Thank-you all for being here at all. I've been alone a long time. I have thought my whole life that I'd die alone. That's not possible anymore. Not just here but at places like this in whatever field of enquiry there are fine folk.

Anyway I'm rambling now.

Sentimental sacrin ian

Humbled at supermod.

[Gregster]

Substance abuse problems are usually about self-esteem. The poor impulse control ADHD saddles a person with doesn't help either. Your boyfriend gets approval and validation from his friends - he's not likely going to change his behaviour as long as that is the only source for it.
Marijuana does not interact with the same neurotransmitters as Strattera - there are specific canabidinoid (sp?) receptors that grass works on - so it will not stop Strattera from working. That said, I find it does sap some of the effectiveness from the stimulants I take for the ADHD (The good news is that I have far less desire to smoke and better impulse control when taking stimulants, so I have been smoking far less that before I was diagnosed 3 months ago.)
Strattera does not help all people - have a look at the Stattera section of the medication forum to see what people have said about Strattera - good and bad. It's located here:

http://www.addforums.com/forums/foru...?s=&forumid=91

I do think your boyfriend needs help for his substance abuse issues - both pot and alcohol (of the two, an alcohol problem is much unhealthier) - but he won't change unless he wants to, and preaching will likely only make his self-esteem issues worse. You have to talk to people about these problems in a totally non-judgmental and rational way (not always easy to do!) if you want them to admit the problem exists and seek treatment for it.
In my opinion assertiveness training isn't going to make a big difference for him - he'll just be an assertive pot smoker - although learning to be assertive and confident may help his self-esteem, and that may help the pot use.
If you are waiting for him to change, you may find that you are going to have to wait a long time - I have heard it said that many relationships fail because the woman expects that the man will change and the man expects that the woman will stay the same.
Good luck,
Greg

[Ian]

Vero would you quote some sources please?
Cheers! Ian.

[Vero]

Hey Ian,
I got the info from my psychiatrist and psychologist and also from my boyfriend's sister who's a nurse 30 years and has an ADHD son (bf's nephew). My dr.'s both said that they refuse to prescribe Strattera to a patient that continues to smoke pot because it decreases the effectiveness of the meds. You have to keep taking higher and higher doses in order to feel the effects of the Strattera and eventually it's totally ineffective - probably because they can only prescribe to a certain dosage level.

The info about pot affecting the same part of the brain came from the nurse who has extensive experience dealing with ADHD as her son has it. She said Strattera effects the norepinephrine system and dopamine levels - as both are also affected by smoking pot this is why the effectiveness of Strattera is affected. I am not very good at reiterating the clinical jargon.

I had a chat with my boyfriend about Alzheimers yesterday - in the wake of Regan's death - it basically concluded that we really need to take care of our brains because they can fail us later in life. So, hopefully he is starting to see the light.

I am hopeful that by my example he will learn how important it is to take care of yourself. He does have self esteem issues that I think mostly stem from his ADHD. Right now since the meds aren't effective yet he's still dealing with the "I know what I ought to do - I just don't do it" behavioral patterns. I know there's also the possiblility that Strattera just won't work for him. His friends are also a major factor. I think that one or two of them especially make comments and gestures that play on his esteem. Hopefully he will begin to see that these are not healthy friendships once he comes out of "the fog".

He goes back to the doc on the 17th and the dose will go up then. They are really going easy on him with the dose schedule. I was on 60 mg by the 2nd week. Keep your fingers crossed for him!

Luckily I have become much more patient since I started Strattera and I do realize that ultimately he needs to make the decision to change. I think he also needs to grow up a little but I love him and have promised to stick by him. I am probably the only woman who would stick by him seeing as I have a unique understanding of what he goes thru. His family says that he has recently made the most effort to deal with his ADHD issues than he has in the past 30 years and that I am the reason. So, the waiting game continues.

Well, I have rambled on enough about my bloody boyfriend here! Thanks for listening - it's been frustrating enough trying to sort out all my own issues and I have been helping him to sort out his own as well. He is seeking help though so I hope I am making a difference. I like to think that we meet the people in our lives for specific reasons. I don't know about the whole destiny thing but I think that my man and I were definitely supposed to meet each other!

[Ian]

Life is short. Play hard.
Cheers! Ian.

[Crazy~Feet]

Wow, me too. I was firmly convinced that I would one day be sitting in my wheelchair on the front porch with a doob still pasted to my lip. Then one day I woke up and was out of weed and just never went back to get any more.

It had similar effects on me to the ones mentioned, although instead of saying "stimulated" I said I was "inspired" ...but I sure could clean the house and do it normally (one room at a time, no wandering off) and no weed? No cleaning. Ugh! I used to wake and bake or want to go right back to bed.

Nice to know I was not alone in this behavior, and to know why people around me didn't "get it" that I was effected that way.

[sehrita]

Congrats on kicking the habit Vero! Quitting bad habits are hard to do.

I quit smoking pot when I quit drinking booze ( 2 yrs & 4 mos). I took strattera then and always wondered why it had never seemed to work.. Now I take it again and I notice a huge change. I am so thankful to be free from all of my bad habits (smoking, booze, pot). Life is so much more enjoyable because it is also very real now.

My boyfriend at the time I was quitting also smoked pot. He never quit so I quit him. He was given a chance to quit and tons of encouragement. I learned that you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. I knew I needed to move on if I was to stay healthy and that sometimes just being a good influence doesn't do the trick. After being together for 6 years and dealing with his drug use and mine....... I left. I tried to make it work for 6 months after I quit, but there was no change. He promised and promised, but I found him sneaking the pot behind my back.

I now have a boyfriend with no drug addictions and rarely drinks alcohol. The relationship is by no means perfect, but at least I know it is real and not based on lies and mood altering substances.

Good luck to you and your choice on what to do with your boyfriend. You sound like a very intelligent person and I am sure that you will make the right choice.

Take care,

[*~ §EEK ~*]

Interesting forum topic!!
I haven't read this anywhere, so it isn't anything scientifically studied that I am aware of! But I have my own theory why marijuana seems to help with ADD.

Personally, my biggest problem I deal with emotionally having ADD is Worry! Worry Worry Worry!!! You know the searching out of hot topics that causes so much anxiety and depression, right? I use to have terrible stomach problems, and bowel problems before I was finally diagnosed with ADD! Not anymore! Yeehaw!!

Anyway, it is my understanding "Scientifically speaking" that marijuana effects your short-term memory! When people use marijuana they are not as able to get things into short-term memory as readily! Which is the biggest reason why it's so bad for children and adolescents to use regularly during their formative (learning) years! (Or anyone who is in school to learn actually!) So, If it doesn't get into one's short term memory, then it will never make it into long term memory and therefore severely effects ones ability to "Learn" and remember things!


So, with that said, my theory is that marijuana inhibits the short-term memory where hot topics (or worry) begins and therefore helps with the "obsessive" worry that plagues many ADD people!

So what do you all think? Is that a decent theory or not? It's the only reasonable theory I have been able to come up with to explain marijuana's appeal to the ADD brain!

Peace,

*~ §EEK ~*

[*~ §EEK ~*]

I guess no one liked my theory! LOL

Originally Posted by *~ §EEK ~*

Interesting forum topic!!
I haven't read this anywhere, so it isn't anything scientifically studied that I am aware of! But I have my own theory why marijuana seems to help with ADD.

Personally, my biggest problem I deal with emotionally having ADD is Worry! Worry Worry Worry!!! You know the searching out of hot topics that causes so much anxiety and depression, right? I use to have terrible stomach problems, and bowel problems before I was finally diagnosed with ADD! Not anymore! Yeehaw!!

Anyway, it is my understanding "Scientifically speaking" that marijuana effects your short-term memory! When people use marijuana they are not as able to get things into short-term memory as readily! Which is the biggest reason why it's so bad for children and adolescents to use regularly during their formative (learning) years! (Or anyone who is in school to learn actually!) So, If it doesn't get into one's short term memory, then it will never make it into long term memory and therefore severely effects ones ability to "Learn" and remember things!


So, with that said, my theory is that marijuana inhibits the short-term memory where hot topics (or worry) begins and therefore helps with the "obsessive" worry that plagues many ADD people!

So what do you all think? Is that a decent theory or not? It's the only reasonable theory I have been able to come up with to explain marijuana's appeal to the ADD brain!

Peace,

*~ §EEK ~*

[Rayzor]

Originally Posted by *~ §EEK ~*

I guess no one liked my theory! LOL

[/indent]

Au contraire mon frere!

I understand all too well the worrying with add (as I also have depression, and anxiety which is more "cyclical" in severity over time) and uncontrollable constant searching for "hot topics" (quite often negative, but it is gradually changing right now actually which is nice). I agree that pot clears out most of the negative worrying allowing for the positive topics of interest to appear in your thoughts. My Rx adderall also seems to do this, but with the other differences (powerful stimulant vs mellow stoner) causing the different secondary effects.

The real question now is precisely what part(s) of hippocampus (unless one or both of the drugs affect other places like the amygdala or the limbic system) is/are functioning very much alike or similar to each other under each drug's influence (separately)? After this, investigating the possible results could yeild the answers (and a miracle mental health cure) to these conditions...

[*~ §EEK ~*]

Originally Posted by Rayzor

The real question now is precisely what part(s) of hippocampus (unless one or both of the drugs affect other places like the amygdala or the limbic system) is/are functioning very much alike or similar to each other under each drug's influence (separately)? After this, investigating the possible results could yield the answers (and a miracle mental health cure) to these conditions...

Unfortunately, I don't think there is very much interest in investigating the positive effects of marijuana on the ADD brain, or even non-ADD brains!

This is probably due to the fact that marijuana (THC) is not patentable and the drug companies wouldn't/couldn't make any money from it!

They would more than likely make some sort of synthetic version of THC and market it as a "New" ADD medication before they would use plain old THC.