What If You Don't Care Enough To Get Help?

[mADD mike]

So, I went and talked with my brother yesterday. He and I are very much alike, we just experience things a little differently here or there, and sadly, I think he's gotten farther along in undiagnosed conditions and depression quicker than I did, as he's about 10 years younger than me. Nobody in our family lived a charmed life, my mom is bipolar, and dad has always suffered from depression but never did anything about it until he got diagnosed after the age of 50 or so, but he never did take meds regularly enough to do anything much anyway.

We are different. Heck, I'm an ADDer, so that alone puts me in a small percent of the population. My brother is much like me, so he's different too. Nobody really understands in our lives. I'm still prone to depression, especially if I don't work out, as I can go downhill pretty quickly. He's DEEP in it, places where I've been before.

He apparently is a cutter, to some extent, which I didn't know until yesterday. He says that he hates himself, which I can identify with. He can't stand to be praised, wants to kill stupid people, and carries an extreme measure of frustration and rage internally. He constantly says "I don't care", but then says things like "I'm afraid I'll do this or that", or "I hate myself". If you truly don't care, you won't be afraid of this or that, and you won't have the feeling of hating yourself. You would be apathetic, just numb.

He says he'll be driving his car, and sometimes just envision himself running into this or that and ending it all. He thinks about walking out in traffic. He doesn't want to wake up in the morning. He has one, maybe two friends, but he is socially very quiet and just doesn't like people much. He goes home after work, and doesn't want to go back out and do anything. He's done.

The reality is that he's been hurt a LOT in life. I think it is a lot more than he knows how to face, and because of that it is easier to throw his hands up and say "I don't care". I know, because I've been there. Our lives aren't identical, but close enough that I know what he's going through to a great extent. The only thing above that I didn't do is cut, but that's just because I can't stand the sight of blood. I have done other things to hurt myself in the past.

I tried to give him some hope. I also realize that I had to be at a point in my life where I could see what was going on and was ready for help. I want to help, but don't know if I really can at this point. He doesn't have any insurance, or money, so he can't afford to go get professional help, and he says that he really doesn't want to get help anyway. I think that sometimes you get so down and so accustomed to it that you get addicted to it, or if nothing else, it becomes so "normal" that you can't see anything different as a possibility. He seems to have a comfort level with how he is, at least he says so, but as I pointed out, he still hates himself, so how comfortable can he really be? There are so many contradictions in what he says, and I've been there and done that myself. Deep down he really cares, a lot, but the depression doesn't, and it creates an internal struggle of sorts that the depression wins often.

Why am I writing this? I just needed to get it off my chest. It was REALLY hard for me to go see him and find out how bad things were. I know how I felt for my 30 years before finding out about ADD, and it hurts to see someone else have to go through that. Especially since we can relate on so much of it.

I want to help, but I don't want to push someone too hard, and knowing that things CAN change and can turn around with some acceptance of self, some understanding of who you are, changes in perception, and some self-care, along with the possibility of meds though he probably couldn't afford them, it makes me want to push him to get help. I still have some measure of frustration and rage, but it is sooooooooooooo much less. I still have days where I get overly down on myself, but it is soooooooooooo fewer and far between now. I want him to have that. I want everyone that has to face these demons to have that. Depression is so cruel, it robs us of our true self, and holds us captive until we can wriggle free long enough to see light at the end of the tunnel instead of a brick wall. If we can see that light just long enough to reach for it, and gain some momentum in doing so, change can happen. Right now he sees the brick wall, not light.

If you have any suggestions for me in trying to help without pushing him away, I'd appreciate it. I just want to be his big brother and friend, not someone that is seen as pushing him. I really wish he's research his own undiagnosed disorders and see where he fits in, because there's strength in numbers, but he says that he doesn't care enough to.

Thanks for listening,
Mike

[Maurice]

Mike, why not get him to go to the Mental Health Center in your community for help. I used to go there for help when I was undiagnosed and depressed. And here is the good part.......I remember my counselor telling me that they work on a sliding-fee scale and if they don't have any money then they do not charge them any money. How's that sound?

[mADD mike]

Originally Posted by Maurice

Mike, why not get him to go to the Mental Health Center in your community for help. I used to go there for help when I was undiagnosed and depressed. And here is the good part.......I remember my counselor telling me that they work on a sliding-fee scale and if they don't have any money then they do not charge them any money. How's that sound?

Sounds great to me, but he said that he really doesn't care enough to get started on anything, to try to get help, etc. I can't force him to go. He just says that he's happy like he is, of course, all the while saying that he doesn't like himself. That struggle between depression and "not caring", and the fact that somewhere in there he does really care, has it's grips on him. Right now the depression is winning. Maybe if in the right mood, having a good day (which is rare), and if I happened to be around and they happened to be open, he would go. I just don't know if he can handle facing things, thus the "I just don't care" cop-out.

Oh, and my guess is that if he's enough like I was, he's fairly oppositional at times. So, if pushed to go get help too hard, he will make sure that he doesn't, which is self-defeating, but it is what it is.

[Maurice]

Wow, that has to be awfully frustrating for you. The only other thing I can thing I can think of is maybe you could go to the Mental Health Center and explain the problem. They have counselors that specialize in different types of people. And maybe you could explain to them that you are his brother and you would like to just meet who he might get for a counselor and ask if you could talk to him or her for five minutes. Then you could tell your brother that you met a counselor that he might get and tell him what you thought of them.

[mADD mike]

Yeah, it is frustrating. I hate it because I've been there, pretty much right where he is, and I know it can get so much better. That might be a viable idea, to kind of blaze the trail for him a bit, so to speak. When you don't like people much, the idea of opening up to them and spilling your guts, or being in a vulnerable position, doesn't sound too appealing. To some extent, I think that some meds that knocked the depression down might be enough to give him a clearer shot at what he's missing out on. Of course, if you just medicate and he doesn't change his thought processes and see things more correctly, then he'll just drop the meds and go back to the land of depression, which is exactly what my dad did.

[danelady]

Gosh Mike..I see myself in you and your brother SO SO MUCH! My sister was able to keep herself together and get help and it was me running around throwing my hands up screaming I DON'T CARE!!! Only now am I learning to be honest with myself. I want to commend you for being a great brother. I tried to get some kind of relationship going with my sister again but she and I cannot let go of the past while we are together. I wish your brother luck,and you too.

[peripatetic]

hey mike,

my opinion on this is that you need to do whatever will make this situation as ok as possible for you. he knows where help is, and that you're ready at the drop of a hat.

the burden you must feel at his suicidal ideation, his despair (especially since you note that he has suffered considerably) and seeing yourself in that pain, must be overwhelming. all of that must be made more overwhelming knowing that 'outing' him and forcing him into treatment may well result in his seeing that as betrayal of some sort. as much as you want to be there and provide a sympathetic audience for him to share his struggles, i think it's important to determine how much you can give and when the time is right to opt to do whatever you can to save *him* even if it means losing your close connection indefinitely.

can *you* talk to someone? do *you* have an outlet for gauging how to react?

you've always struck me as someone amply willing to help your family and my concern is that there is nobody there to shoulder this burden with you. we're here on the forums, of course, but i really don't think this is a challenge you should be facing alone. if the worst were to happen, you need to be at peace with anything and everything you've done or not done. are there other family members or close friends that you can bring into the situation so that you don't feel so alone in this?

i'm not sure if i've really offered much, but i've been left behind from a parent's suicide and from some friends'. it's very difficult to know when to get more people involved and when to let them work through their issues. i believe the standard line of thinking is that if they're talking about it, you shouldn't keep that to yourself and should seek additional help. i find the cutting thing worrisome as well. seeking outside help for someone is easier said than done, though, and i understand feeling like you would betray a confidence.

nevertheless, at the end of the day, *you* need to save yourself, too.

my best wishes to you as you work through this situation

[daveddd]

i dont know how bad you think his suicidal ideas are

but i do know what it feels like to know the signs were there and i didnt stop it

[daveddd]

so what im saying is do whatever it takes , when you think its time

[mADD mike]

Originally Posted by daveddd

i dont know how bad you think his suicidal ideas are

but i do know what it feels like to know the signs were there and i didnt stop it

Well, I can't be in his head and know anything 100% absolutely, but I can identify with much of his thoughts. I had them for many, many years, but they were more impulsive thoughts than anything I had plans to do. I've always had really morbid impulsive thoughts that run through my head, or scenarios created in my head usually tend to end with bad things happening. It's just always been that way, but it doesn't mirror real life in any way.

There really isn't anything I can do to stop anything forcefully. I can only imagine that regardless of what anyone would do, if something horrible should happen, everyone would live with guilt no matter what they did or didn't do. You can always second-guess just about anything and make it a weight in your life.

If you are saying that you didn't stop it and that someone followed through on their threats, then I'm so sorry for that. For a person to take their own life though, they have to be quite ill mentally, and like I said, if they are that bad off, you can't really do much about it. It isn't your fault.

[brain chatter]

I can really feel your pain and frustration...caught in the double edged sword....has he ever looked at this forum

[mADD mike]

Originally Posted by peripatetic

hey mike,

my opinion on this is that you need to do whatever will make this situation as ok as possible for you. he knows where help is, and that you're ready at the drop of a hat.

the burden you must feel at his suicidal ideation, his despair (especially since you note that he has suffered considerably) and seeing yourself in that pain, must be overwhelming. all of that must be made more overwhelming knowing that 'outing' him and forcing him into treatment may well result in his seeing that as betrayal of some sort. as much as you want to be there and provide a sympathetic audience for him to share his struggles, i think it's important to determine how much you can give and when the time is right to opt to do whatever you can to save *him* even if it means losing your close connection indefinitely.

can *you* talk to someone? do *you* have an outlet for gauging how to react?

you've always struck me as someone amply willing to help your family and my concern is that there is nobody there to shoulder this burden with you. we're here on the forums, of course, but i really don't think this is a challenge you should be facing alone. if the worst were to happen, you need to be at peace with anything and everything you've done or not done. are there other family members or close friends that you can bring into the situation so that you don't feel so alone in this?

i'm not sure if i've really offered much, but i've been left behind from a parent's suicide and from some friends'. it's very difficult to know when to get more people involved and when to let them work through their issues. i believe the standard line of thinking is that if they're talking about it, you shouldn't keep that to yourself and should seek additional help. i find the cutting thing worrisome as well. seeking outside help for someone is easier said than done, though, and i understand feeling like you would betray a confidence.

nevertheless, at the end of the day, *you* need to save yourself, too.

my best wishes to you as you work through this situation

He spoke to my mom about a lot of this stuff, apparently. She's a great person to talk to. Very intelligent, has been through a lot of the same stuff because she has had to fight it her whole life to some extent. He's forming a small support group of his own in the way things are coming out and being discussed. There are people that care for him.

As far as I go, just coming here and letting it out a bit helps. I've always carried a lot of weight on my shoulders in our family, so I think I'm just kind of accustomed to it. Between my dad essentially committing suicide by refusing to be treated for diabetes, as he obviously doesn't care too much about living and never has, and my brother's issues with depression, my own issues with depression and ADD, my wife's ADD, etc., it's just the way I live. Sadly, it is obvious that my little sister has a lot of issues she'll face when she gets older too.

It weighs on me for a while, but as a few days pass and I can come to terms with these things in my head, it gets okay. I can deal with these things. I don't have the ability or finances to get any kind of therapist in my corner, and to be honest, we have always been so "different" that most people don't understand us anyway.

[mADD mike]

Originally Posted by brain chatter

I can really feel your pain and frustration...caught in the double edged sword....has he ever looked at this forum

No, I tried to get him to read on here, but he's just not ready to face things right now, or "doesn't care enough to". I wish he would. I encouraged him to seek out such places, to kind of "get in where you fit in", so to speak. Find others facing the same things, and in doing so he can find some hope and something to shoot for. Who knows, maybe he'll come find this. If he does, he'll know it is me by what I say and where I live, and that's fine. He needs to know that people care. I don't know if he'd come here though. He doesn't act like he will do so.

[brain chatter]

Originally Posted by mADD mike

No, I tried to get him to read on here, but he's just not ready to face things right now, or "doesn't care enough to". I wish he would. I encouraged him to seek out such places, to kind of "get in where you fit in", so to speak. Find others facing the same things, and in doing so he can find some hope and something to shoot for. Who knows, maybe he'll come find this. If he does, he'll know it is me by what I say and where I live, and that's fine. He needs to know that people care. I don't know if he'd come here though. He doesn't act like he will do so.

I think you've done about all you can for now..and who know's maybe his "light bulb" will come on quicker than you wished

[ginniebean]

Mike,

He has to want to reach out to you. He has no reason he can see right now. (apathy) Which means you need to find him a reason to.

Buy a couple of books on ADHD or lend him a couple you have, I recommend the book by Thom Hartmann, not because of any scientific validity but rather because his use of metaphor is inspiring. If a situation calls for it, and this would seem to, it's worth a shot.