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  #1  
Old 03-31-14, 01:57 PM
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Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

Article in Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/donna-...b_4949845.html

Thought it was interesting as I know there are non-ADHD kids out there who are under the impression that Adderall will solve all their academic problems, so it's nice to see a popular publication refuting those ideas.
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  #2  
Old 03-31-14, 02:21 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

ADD medication will make people more alert. It will not increase you brain power nor will it make studying easier if you are not ADD.
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Old 04-01-14, 04:55 AM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

I am not sure if I agree with this. I am not one to think that stimulants increase anyone's brain power even if they have adhd. But stimulant abuse and black market sales on college campuses leads me to believe that in some cases they must help people without adhd.
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Old 04-01-14, 05:37 AM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I am not sure if I agree with this. I am not one to think that stimulants increase anyone's brain power even if they have adhd. But stimulant abuse and black market sales on college campuses leads me to believe that in some cases they must help people without adhd.
I agree with this. If it they had no effect at all then there wouldn't be a black market for them. Explains it all really.
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Old 04-01-14, 10:44 AM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

Stimulants will boost anybodies focus. None of them give anybody "brain power". The pills don't contain academic information that gets fed directly to the brain, but it does make focusing on boring tasks easier whether you have ADHD or not.
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Old 04-01-14, 11:27 AM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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Originally Posted by sarahsweets View Post
I am not sure if I agree with this. I am not one to think that stimulants increase anyone's brain power even if they have adhd. But stimulant abuse and black market sales on college campuses leads me to believe that in some cases they must help people without adhd.
I agree with Sarah 100%, but the article is also correct. Let me get my tweed jacket and chalk,.. tap tap tap.. "is this on? good, let's begin!"

When it comes to most ADHD stimulant medications, two dopaminergic pathways are influenced.

1. Increased Dopamine Production. With adderall this is minimal and basically a side effect. Tolerance is developed very very quickly and unless you consistently increase your dose, you wont experience this after a short time. This is the effect that helps EVERYONE, ADHD or not.


2. Dopamine Reuptake Inhibition. This is the main effect of adderall. It is very tolerance resistant and you can take adderall for years and get this effect. If your dopamine is otherwise well regulated this wont do much for you. Only those of us who's dopamine availability is otherwise inconsistent, including those with ADHD, will see a benefit once our dopamine production adjusts
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  #7  
Old 04-01-14, 01:40 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

Amphetamines don't make non-ADHD people "smarter" or improve their memory. According to research that part is true. HOWEVER, they make people FEEL like they are smarter and more confident. And feeling like you are smarter is a huge bonus- that will translate into a performance increase. Probably not in a lab environment, but in the real world, definitely. Research has shown that more self confident you are, the better your financial outlook. Amphetamines could help one person edge out another in a job interview or performance review.

Also ADHD meds will increase productivity and output for everyone. Academia rewards output above all else- that's why I suck at it so terribly.

Increased productivity always translates into real life gains. I think part of the problem here is that academia wants to insist it rewards intelligence above droll busy work, but the reality is that excelling at busy work is necessary to succeed in academia and most work environments.

I'm so sick of nonsense like this. It doesn't help people with ADHD at all, and it downplays a very real problem exploding at college campuses and workplaces across the country.
Lying to people about the effects of drugs never works.

Last edited by ana futura; 04-01-14 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 04-01-14, 01:48 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post

[b]Tolerance is developed very very quickly and unless you consistently increase your dose, you wont experience this after a short time.
This is simply not true. Amphetamines in any amount will ALWAYS increase dopamine production in anyone.

If you are talking about experiencing euphoria- yes, in order to experience euphoria you will eventually have to increase your dose. But that's also assuming you take it every day, and the majority of academic abusers do not.
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Old 04-01-14, 02:00 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

I wish I could take Stimulant meds. They do help, but my heart freaks out on the smallest possible dosage.
I feel like I'm wasting my life.
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Old 04-01-14, 02:13 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

It's also a bit ironic that the two areas I find amphetamines most helpful with are the areas that non-ADHD'ers find benefit from as well.

Sure, meds help me organize my thoughts better, calm me down, and help me recall information easier, but those things weren't really getting in my way in school. The areas I needed the most help with are self confidence and tolerance for busy work.
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Old 04-01-14, 02:29 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

Quote:
Originally Posted by ana futura View Post
This is simply not true. Amphetamines in any amount will ALWAYS increase dopamine production in anyone.
You're right, my language was imprecise. It's not that once you build tolerance amphetamine no longer stimulates dopamine production. It's that once you build tolerance, you no longer experience the effect of increased dopamine production because your baseline level of production has been reduced to accommodate equilibrium with the amphetamine. Hence, tolerance. My point is unaffected but you're right, the wording was careless.

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Originally Posted by ana futura View Post
Also ADHD meds will increase productivity and output for everyone. Academia rewards output above all else- that's why I suck at it so terribly.
That's sort of true, but whether you have ADHD will determine how it effects you. Everyone benefits from increased dopamine production, but that is short lived and wont benefit you once you build tolerance. Reuptake inhibition only helps those with ADHD and this is the tolerance resistant pathway that generated the long term benefits. If your dopamine availability is otherwise well regulated, your body will simply adjust and you will experience no benefit; your dopamine will be where it would have been anyway. [b]If you have ADHD, even once your baseline level of dopamine production is reduced and you have tolerance, the reuptake inhibitor is still keeping your dopamine availability consistent[/B].
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Old 04-01-14, 02:30 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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Originally Posted by Twiggy View Post
I wish I could take Stimulant meds. They do help, but my heart freaks out on the smallest possible dosage.
I feel like I'm wasting my life.
I have a friend who can't take medication either. She's trying alternatives, but it's so unfair when people can't take the medication.
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Old 04-01-14, 02:53 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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Originally Posted by Stevuke79 View Post
That's sort of true, but whether you have ADHD will determine how it effects you. Everyone benefits from increased dopamine production, but that is short lived and wont benefit you once you build tolerance. Reuptake inhibition only helps those with ADHD and this is the tolerance resistant pathway that generated the long term benefits. If your dopamine availability is otherwise well regulated, your body will simply adjust and you will experience no benefit; your dopamine will be where it would have been anyway. [b]If you have ADHD, even once your baseline level of dopamine production is reduced and you have tolerance, the reuptake inhibitor is still keeping your dopamine availability consistent[/B].
Do you have any research to back these statements?

The body never "adjusts" when amphetamines are taken as most abusers take them. So even if you would see this happen in a lab environment, you're rarely going to see it happen in real life.

Also, this is all irrelevant to the article.

The article is stating that ADHD meds don't provide benefit to non ADHD'ers because the drugs do not make them smarter, only more confident. It is not stating that increased self confidence goes away over time- only that increased self confidence (and increased output) is not a benefit.

My point is that increased self confidence and output alone are huge performance boosts - and based on what I've observed in my interactions with amphetamine abusers on college campuses, these "perks" never goes away.
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Old 04-01-14, 04:08 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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Do you have any research to back these statements?
That adderall acts as an uptake inhibitor is pretty basic; you can look here:
Dextroamphetamine stimulates the release of norepinephrine from central adrenergic receptors. At higher dosages, it causes release of dopamine from the mesocorticolimbic system and the nigrostriatal dopamine systems by reversal of the monoamine transporters. Dextroamphetamine may also act as a direct agonist on central 5-HT receptors and may inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO). In the periphery, amphetamines are believed to cause the release of noradrenaline by acting on the adrenergic nerve terminals and alpha- and beta-receptors. Modulation of serotonergic pathways may contribute to the calming affect

Quote:
The body never "adjusts" when amphetamines are taken as most abusers take them. So even if you would see this happen in a lab environment, you're rarely going to see it happen in real life...Also, this is all irrelevant to the article...

My point is that increased self confidence and output alone are huge performance boosts - and based on what I've observed in my interactions with amphetamine abusers on college campuses, these "perks" never goes away.
I understand your point and I agree; I'm pretty sure we agree regarding the article. I think you're addressing an issue related to the article that I agree is very important; I guess it stood out to you and it's good to address it. I think it's a really important point but it's not contrary to the article or anything I said.

The article addresses the fallacy that ADHD is treated with a drug that would ameliorate symptoms for everyone. This fallacy by the way lends itself to stigmas about ADHD and whether it is a real disorder, so we all probably agree it's a harmful fallacy. The article simply says the fallacy isn't true. Your point, which is also very important is that abusers take adderall differently than would be prescribed and therefore actually do get long term benefits even though they don't have ADHD.

But again, the point of the article is that taking adderall as perscribed only helps you if you have ADHD or some similar disorder. When taken as prescribed the only long term benefit is the regulation of dopamine (consistent availability as addressed in my citation) for those who's dopamine is otherwise dis-regulated. If it is not otherwise dis-regulated, benefits, when taken as prescribed, are non existent.
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Old 04-01-14, 04:22 PM
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Re: Stimulant medication doesn't work for those w/o ADHD

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That adderall acts as an uptake inhibitor is pretty basic...
C'mon Steve, no duh Adderall acts as a reuptake inhibitor. I mean research that supports your assertion that over time, dopamine reuptake and/ or release ceases to be noticeable (tolerance) in a non ADHD subject.

And assuming that research does exist, it's still not going to be applicable to real life situations.
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