Divorcing with ADHD spouse. Custody Questions

[Roma3030]

Hello, I am new to this site. My soon to be Ex-husband and my 2 boys 7 and 8 all have ADHD. My husband struggled his whole life and didnt find out he was ADHD until our oldest was diagnosed. The second child followed also.

Anyway.... We are in the beginning processes of divorce and so far things have been pretty amicable. Until it comes to custody. In my eyes the major reason for our divorce is I can not continue to ride the roller coaster of his emotions, or should I say lack there of. He is very black and white and depending on the day you don't know what you are going to get. I truly feel this is because he went undiagnosed for so long that this is how he has dealt with it for so long it doesn't know anything else. Both him and my oldest really struggle with the social part of ADHD, I tend to call it the "cop mentality" They want to apply the rules to everyone else but do not have to follow the same rules. The anger and inability to empithize has been major issues for both of them.

So he wants joint physical custody. I am very hesitant of this. I believe the boys need a stable home environment that provides routine and a safe place. Not to feel like they are getting shuffled back and forth and live out of a suitcase. My husband can be a wonderful dad, and the next minute be biting their heads off. My youngest is much more soft hearted and does not handle this well. I have asked for sole custody with every other weekend and 1 overnight a week, potentially 2 nights on non-weekends. Along with this I have offered some flexablity of if there is something that he wants to do with them on a off night and we dont have anything planned that he can come get them, but they still come home when they are done. You would think I am the worst person in the world, I thought I was trying to be fair and think of what what best for the kids. I dont want to take them away from their father but I am also worried about the negative influence.

Does anyone have any experience with this?? Or a opinion. Please be brutally honest, if I am missing something please tell me. I dont look at this as a win/lose situation. I just want what is best for my boys in the long run.

Thanks for any input.

[pneuma]

Stop considering his feelings. Or yours for that matter. Do what is best for the kids. You're the mom; if you want custody, you'll get it.

[Trooper Keith]

Push for custody, it sounds like you can provide a better home environment for them.

[ADHDTigger]

Where I live, joint custody means that the children live with one parent most of the time while the other parent has *theoretically* equal time. What I hear you describing would be defined here as joint custody- the children have weekends and other time with their father.

I agree with Pneuma. It isn't about what is best for either of you. It's about what is best for the kids.

To be honest, I see nothing at all wrong with the arrangement you have proposed. It sounds like you are trying to give him all the latitude you can.

[ginniebean]

Originally Posted by Roma3030

. Both him and my oldest really struggle with the social part of ADHD, I tend to call it the "cop mentality" They want to apply the rules to everyone else but do not have to follow the same rules. The anger and inability to empithize has been major issues for both of them.

Most social interactions have rules that vary according to circumstances and most people intuitively get these rules. Some people with adhd, those with low working memory issues cannot decode these rules intuitively because most of them are beyond the capacity of working memory. What you are seeing is often a half figured out rule. The rule is supposed to stay the same but it keeps moving which is very frustrating.

Trying to bring order to your life when you have ADHD is like trying to hang on to a fish and so that frustration builds and then being male they most likely try and 'impose' order on others simply to try and keep up with it all. Doing this unconsciously and not knowing why.

People with ADHD do not lack empathy, they do lack information that would help them navigate expectations and set reasonable limits. Surprisingly many spouses feel that their expectations are reasonable when they aren't and since most of the 'helping class" those who write about how to live with an ADHD spouse are non-add spouses you're getting a funky picture that doesn't often jive with reality. This is not important for you to understand as far as the ex goes.. but certainly is important for you to understand for your sons sakes.

So he wants joint physical custody. I am very hesitant of this. I believe the boys need a stable home environment that provides routine and a safe place. Not to feel like they are getting shuffled back and forth and live out of a suitcase. My husband can be a wonderful dad, and the next minute be biting their heads off. My youngest is much more soft hearted and does not handle this well. I have asked for sole custody with every other weekend and 1 overnight a week, potentially 2 nights on non-weekends. Along with this I have offered some flexablity of if there is something that he wants to do with them on a off night and we dont have anything planned that he can come get them, but they still come home when they are done. You would think I am the worst person in the world, I thought I was trying to be fair and think of what what best for the kids. I dont want to take them away from their father but I am also worried about the negative influence.

I have ADHD and I was a single parent with full custody. (my boys are grown and they are wonderful and doing great) Let me assure you, all parents come with 'negative influence' even the ones that do not have ADHD. NonADHD parents can have an extreme negative influence and be completely unaware of it. Moralizing the ADHD, expectations that aren't reasonable, not getting educated enough to advocate on behalf of your children.. there's loads more but those generally are the top ones that cause children endless grief)


Having been thru the court systems and been given full custody what you want and what you get are not up to you. It's a meat grinder and you're the meat. (so is your husband) You are at the mercy of a system that doesn't care about your feelings and has a cold eye on what is 'best' for your children. They use facts, they use formula that will not take into account the specifics of your family. They will not accept ADHD as a reason to discriminate against a parents access to their children because it is illegal.

Custody gives a lot of power and very often this power is abused and it's no small fear.(Courts are aware of this and so will give maximum access to the non-custodial parent or join custody if there is no really really good reason against it) You need to learn to communicate with him whether married or not. You need to tell him your fears for your youngest son. You will also need to listen to his fears. Negotiation is part of that deal. Ambiguous offers that are not set in stone are meaningless. He can take you to court for not allowing him his weekend visitation but the more ambiguous 'visits' are worthless in terms of any enforcement.

Most people with ADHD will put a very low priority on material goods and so are an easy roll over and considered "amicable' in divorce but not when it comes to children. Many of us are fiercely loyal parents.


When you look at the amount of time he's getting with the children it's not much. 4 guaranteed days a month. Sleepovers once during the week tend to fade away as they are not practical. I can assure you he's looking at this amount and thinking "you've got to be kidding!" You may think this is reasonable but is it? (I'm just playing devils advocate here) Would you be content with seeing your children 4 (enforceable) days a month? Would you object? (empathy has to go two ways y'know?)

He's their father, it's not up to you for the most part what his influence is going to be. There really is soooo much you can't control married and even less when you're divorced. You can work with him on it or not. It's truly best for the children if you do work with him on it.

Does anyone have any experience with this?? Or a opinion. Please be brutally honest, if I am missing something please tell me. I dont look at this as a win/lose situation. I just want what is best for my boys in the long run.

Thanks for any input.

The courts will not consider his ADHD so if he fights for shared custody he'll most likely get it. What is best for the children is generous access to their parents, this is not always convenient once you've moved on and are in another relationship. (children coming first can be rationalized sooo many ways)

Shared custody is by and large the most fair to the children, and for thier well being it's known to work very very well when they aren't teens. It has the least emotional damage. It can be made stable and comfortable. It's not best for the parents as a general rule and that's why it's most often objected to.

I wouldn't accept two weekends a month, that would be unacceptable to me. I can truly see why this would be for 'most' parents.

Anyway, that's my brutal honesty coming from brutal experience.

Hope it helped some.

[RedHairedWitch]

My ADHD father (who may also be Aspergers, I'm not sure) fought tooth and nail for every weekend and all summer ... until the reality set in and he backed down to every other weekend and one summer month ... then as we got older it was one weekend a month and one week of summer. That was all he could handle really.
Mom didn't rub his face in it, though she did expect more $$ for child support if he wasn't going to have us so often. So he'd take us school supply shopping and buy our winter boots and coats (important in Canada) and do other things like that.
It may very well be that your EX will realize how much work goes into having the boys by himself and suddenly decide he is "too busy" to have them every weekend and summer (or what have you)

I was raised by a ADHD single mother and she rose to the challenge. There are many amazing full and part time ADHD single parents on this forum. Some of which were not diagnosed and began any kind of treatment until after the divorce. Food for thought.

[peripatetic]

two considerations:

1. you're presenting your husband as emotionally volatile and yourself as the exact opposite. are you suggesting that you alone can offer stability and safety and have never snapped at them...are never in a bad mood? i truly don't think i've met a parent (adhd or not) who has NEVER been frustrated/angry or has ALWAYS managed to keep that frustration/anger under wraps in front of the children. my point is that there are two people getting a divorce and it seems unlikely one is all positive influence and the other solely negative.

2. you have two adhd children and say one is very similar to your future ex-husband in the social/emotional ways you find incompatible with providing a safe and stable home. i put this point second, but it was the first thing i thought of after reading your post. you have two adhd boys whose father may well understand the challenges adhd can present in a way you simply cannot...and deeming him less capable of providing stability and safety based on a shared diagnosis seems ...problematic as your sons mature into relationships of their own.

[Roma3030]

Thank you for all of your input, it defiantly gives me food for thought.

I just want to clarify one thing, I have no intentions of taking the kids away from their father. I am am just trying to figure out what is best for the kids, and to make sure they feel grounded somewhere. Both of my kids are very routine based and being shuffled back and forth would create confusion and insecurity in both of them. Which I know will come out in their behavior, we have seen this before.

I come from divorced parents that was ugly, I know what it feels like to be put in the middle of every situation. I have promised myself that no matter how angry I may be at him at any time, I will NEVER NEVER talk bad about him with them around, I will NEVER use them against him. I will NEVER deny them seeing him because I am upset. The only way anything like that would ever happen is if he went off meds and could not control his temper and was verbally abusive towards them, putting them in a unhealthy situation. I have settled for just the ADHD meds because it does give him the ability to think before acting/saying things he will regret, but he has been told he has severe depression but wont do anything about it, or stay on any medications that he has been given.

Again thanks for all the input, I gives me a lot to think about. I think as a mom I naturally go into protection mode and want to keep the kids safe and shelter them as much as I can. Kinda like a mama bird.

[Roma3030]

1. I am not saying I am the perfect parent, yes I too have bad days. Maybe what I am trying to say is that he can be unpredictable and not be willing to recognize/admit that he is in a bad mood to adjust his behavior.

2. Its kinda funny that you point that out. We have had conversations about this. Because at one point he told me the kids would be better of without his influence in their lives. I was shocked and sad. I said so you are telling me it is better to walk away from them and make them feel like they arent good enough than to work on yourself and then to show them that you can have ADHD and still function as a healthy human being and not use it as an excuse or crutch. He told me he has been this way all his life and probably wont change now. How do you as a parent deal with that???
If I have to work extra hard and provide them whatever support I need, to show them that they can function in a healthy way. I will do what is needed. I gave up my job 2 years ago to be able to figure out what was going on with them as they where both struggling in school and daycare. I knew if I didnt stop and try to figure it out it was only going to get worse. We lost a little over half our income doing this, currently I work 7 days a week, nights delivering papers to help bring in extra income and have been doing so for over a year. It sucks, but in the end if it is what allows me to be home and give them the time and guidance needed than so be it.


I have been though a lot in my life from a alcoholic parent, to my own disfunction as a teen, dropped out of high school, drug issues, failed treatment, jail, etc. I worked hard at changing myself and have been clean for 20 years. I worked my way up through my jobs with out any education past high school to eventually managing Payroll and Benefit departments for national companies.

I do understand this is a medical condition, but what I cant support is someone that hides behind it and uses it as a excuse to behave badly and no one should ever expect more. I do empathize and try to put myself in his shoes constantly, but it is very hard to want to do when they don't want to help themselves. I have found that I have let some of my co-dependent tendencies slip back in with him, making excuses with family, friends, etc.

[Abi]

Roma3030,

1. You refer to your husband as emotionless:

In my eyes the major reason for our divorce is I can not continue to ride the roller coaster of his emotions, or should I say lack there of.

And then immediately follow it up with:

He is very black and white and depending on the day you don't know what you are going to get.

...where you basically say that he extremely emotional, to the point of being volatile. This is a contradiction in terms, so, which, may I ask, is it?

2. You refer to your husband's "inability to empathise", yet your posts are replete with evidence that you are equally incable of emapathising with HIS feelings and challenges.

3. Your suggestion that you can "provide the better home environment" is unfounded; I think it was peripatetic who asked "Have you never lost your temper and snapped at your boys?" Also, have you considered the fact that it could be argued that as an ADHD sufferer himself, your husband would be -more- able to empathise with your sons' challenges and in that respect "provide the better home environment"?

4. Have you considered the fact that:

Originally Posted by peripatetic

deeming him less capable of providing stability and safety based on a shared diagnosis seems ...problematic as your sons mature into relationships of their own.

You have not addressed this question in your 2nd post.

Do you not see how branding your sons' father as being "incompetent" as a consequence of a condition THAT THEY SHARE could be critically detrimental to the development of THEIR own self-esteem and sense of self-worth????

5.

I just want to clarify one thing, I have no intentions of taking the kids away from their father.

No, you just seem to limit his time with them to... what was it again?... 4 days a month?

6. You say:

Again thanks for all the input, I gives me a lot to think about. I think as a mom I naturally go into protection mode and want to keep the kids safe and shelter them as much as I can. Kinda like a mama bird.

Frankly, this statement is offensive in that it suggests that only YOU want to keep your kids safe, etc. and that your husband does not?? Once again you show -your- lack of empathy towards your ADHD husband by making a statement that tacitly implies that you care more about your kids' being safe and sheltered than he does.

Also, your reference to yourself as "mama-bear" is, frankly sexist and offensive to all fathers, whether ADHD or not. I am not a moderator here, but please may I remind you that according to ADDF Guidelines, racism, sexism, communism, capitalism, and all other 'isms are verboten topics.

[peripatetic]

hi roma,

i appreciate your thoughtful reply.

i'm unclear on the portion of your post i quoted below. by 'they' i'm assuming you mean those of us with adhd? if so, and you're primarily considering your husband when making that statement, why do you think he doesn't want to help himself? has he said that he doesn't want to help himself? i ask because i think a major misconception is that we have a problem with willpower...that we want to fail in certain ways or don't want to do what's expected of us. personally, i want to do or not do a lot of things...wanting doesn't make it happen though.

Originally Posted by Roma3030

I do empathize and try to put myself in his shoes constantly, but it is very hard to want to do when they don't want to help themselves. I have found that I have let some of my co-dependent tendencies slip back in with him, making excuses with family, friends, etc.

[ADHDTigger]

Roma, that is perfectly understandable. So would feeling a bit "Mama Bear". I think that everyone who has responded understands that this is a very difficult time for you and your family over all.

A side note here- I understand why hubby isn't willing to stay on anti depressants. For many people with ADHD, they just make things so much worse. I'm one of those ADHDers myself.

I finally looked at your location, only to discover that we are in the same general area. It appears that they have refined custody in this state- joint custody used to be the preference because it kept managing things like emergencies and such so much better for the children. The "non custodial" parent had a terrible time if the former spouse wasn't reachable and an emergency happened.

It is possible that he is acting out in anger. Without knowing anything beyond what you have said here, I know that if he didn't bring the action, he may well do all that he can to set up blocks. That isn't ADHD. That's being human.

Something that *might* be workable would be to establish clear guidelines for him regarding when he has the kids. As Ginnie mentioned- it is one thing to have the guidelines written in stone. It is quite another to "take it on faith". And if he's feeling raw about the situation to begin with, he may not be in a place where he CAN take ANYTHING on faith.

I don't know either of you- although you could be my neighbors for all I know. The fact is that no one knows the whole situation and no one is hearing his side. ALL any of us can do is try to give you food for thought.

I'm open to PM if you would like.

[ADDisme2010]

Sounds like your custody proposal is quite fair, inho he should take it, I don't think the courts will make him a better offer than what you have already proposed!

[ADHDTigger]

Abi- I am going to remind you that you are in NON-ADHD Partner support.

[Roma3030]

abi2010

I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else on the board that was never my intention. Maybe I am not writting exactly what I mean or how I mean it, I am much more a verbal person than written.

I am not intending to be sexist or anything resembling that. In fact most of my friends are men because of my hobbies.

I am not sure where this 4 days a month is coming from, a weekend to us is Friday night, Saturday Night, and Sunday night with bringing them to school Monday morning, along with 1 night a week, so on weeks that are his weekends that is 4 nights in that week, and 1-2 on his off weeks depending on how well the kids do with it, that is a MINIMUM of 10 nights a month. Along with that I have also discussed that summer can be much more flexible without the stresses of school.

I am going to leave it at that, you can take it for what it is worth, and that maybe nothing. But I will say again if I have offended anyone I am truly sorry.