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Adderall (four amphetamine salts)

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  #1  
Old 02-25-11, 11:13 PM
matius matius is offline
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Adderall & Drug Test Levels

I'm just curious, I realize that Adderall is an amphetamine, and that I am a legal user of a strong legal drug . . .

Can someone explain to me the difference between my prescribed dosage (at any level for Adderall) and what someone who's addicted to "illegal" amphetamines might use?

I've been dealing with a drug test issue lately . . . I found, "the screening immunoassay uses a cutoff of 1000 ng/ml. The cutoff for GC/MS is 500 ng/ml for both metabolites - amphetamine and methamphetamine."

Okay, I don't know what that means. But are you telling me that someone is out there robbing and stealing to get what equates to a dosage of Adderall? Why would a drug test have such a low cutoff? Maybe it's not a low cutoff, maybe it's just Adderall is potent. But there must be a difference? If what I have, which I don't think is much of anything, why wouldn't "druggies" just go and get a prescription to it?

I guess the bottom line is, who has an illegal amphetamine habit and is doing only the same amounts that I am? Are these tests not accounting for the rise in legal stimulant use? Or are we all just hardcore drug addicts with a prescription. I have to tell you, if I were doing this illegally I'd hope for lots more.
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Old 02-25-11, 11:30 PM
Vraiment Vraiment is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by matius View Post
I'm just curious, I realize that Adderall is an amphetamine, and that I am a legal user of a strong legal drug . . .

Can someone explain to me the difference between my prescribed dosage (at any level for Adderall) and what someone who's addicted to "illegal" amphetamines might use?

I've been dealing with a drug test issue lately . . . I found, "the screening immunoassay uses a cutoff of 1000 ng/ml. The cutoff for GC/MS is 500 ng/ml for both metabolites - amphetamine and methamphetamine."

Okay, I don't know what that means. But are you telling me that someone is out there robbing and stealing to get what equates to a dosage of Adderall? Why would a drug test have such a low cutoff? Maybe it's not a low cutoff, maybe it's just Adderall is potent. But there must be a difference? If what I have, which I don't think is much of anything, why wouldn't "druggies" just go and get a prescription to it?

I guess the bottom line is, who has an illegal amphetamine habit and is doing only the same amounts that I am? Are these tests not accounting for the rise in legal stimulant use? Or are we all just hardcore drug addicts with a prescription. I have to tell you, if I were doing this illegally I'd hope for lots more.
1000ng is 1000 nanograms or 1 micrograms.

1000ng/mL = 0.001 mg/mL and since the average blood volume is 4.5L = 4500mL you have 0.001 x 4500 = 4.5mg as blood level threshold which is far from surprising. It's the detection threshold. It means that the minimum amount you need to eat in order to test positive is 5.5-7.5 mg (peaks at 4.5C) and the test must be taken 4 hours after your IR dose or 7 hours after your XR dose to test positive (you probably won't, chances are quite low). You have to go more then 10mg the day of the test in order to be sure you'll test positive.

For GCMS it's half that so its 5mg eaten instead of 10mg. A drug addicts takes on average 350mg Adderall daily, probably not orally. When such individuals are screened, they drink up to 10 liters of water per day to try and flush it out so the test has to be accurate enough so that they are unable to flush 350mg out of their system in 1 or 2 days. You see, given a half-life of 12 hours which is usually the minimum, after 48 hours a 300mg blood level which is 66,666 ng/mL would drop down to 4166ng/mL. You gotta drink a hell lot of water to bring that down below 500ng/mL instead lol because it's 3 half lives away from the normal levels (4166/(2x2x2)). Rule of thumb, for each extra half life you want to reduce, you need to drink 10L of water. This would mean 30L in this case, or 15L/day... -_-
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  #3  
Old 02-26-11, 12:43 AM
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

Nice 1 Vraiment, thanks-

Still it makes me mad, I'm on the highest dose 20mg but I'm being treated as a degenerate, that is, an illegal user. Even though I don't judge.
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Old 02-26-11, 02:36 PM
novaprospekt novaprospekt is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

Quote:
Originally Posted by matius View Post
Nice 1 Vraiment, thanks-

Still it makes me mad, I'm on the highest dose 20mg but I'm being treated as a degenerate, that is, an illegal user. Even though I don't judge.
Who is treating you as a degenerate?

I don't know any employer that (provided the medication doesn't interfere with/conflict/affect job performance) cares that you take Adderall as long as everything is legitimate.

I had to be drug tested when I worked at a hospital and I told them up front that I take Adderall (and at the time Wellbutrin which can sometimes show up as an amphetamine) and they just photocopied my prescriptions in-case there was an issue. There was no issue, never had a phone call or any problems with that.

I can understand the frustration with having to provide proof you are legitimate, but also know that the illegal drug methamphetamine is too similar for most standard drug tests to be able to differentiate from Adderall. To distinguish the two, often more expensive tests need to be done. I doubt anyone is discriminating against you for taking prescribed medication though and if they are, you can file a lawsuit about it.
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Old 02-28-11, 04:13 PM
JR1973 JR1973 is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

If you are legally prescribed Adderall then don't worry about it. I've taken several drug tests and get flagged every single time. I also work for the federal government and have a security clearance. No problem whatsoever. I have a coworker that takes 90+mg of Oxycodone for his back each day and he also has a security clearance.
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Old 03-09-11, 01:12 AM
msl2grade msl2grade is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

A person tests twice a week under court order.She has RX for 3 20 mg Adderall tabs a day( 60mg). Her urine tests show results between 10,000 ng/ ml to a high of 82,000 ng/ml and they are all over the map in between. The 82k seems very high to me. Does anyone know how to determine if she is abusing? These tests are usually done on Monday and Thursday around noon.I do not object to paying for a forensic toxicologist if he/she has such expertise.
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Old 03-09-11, 08:42 AM
Vraiment Vraiment is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

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Originally Posted by msl2grade View Post
A person tests twice a week under court order.She has RX for 3 20 mg Adderall tabs a day( 60mg). Her urine tests show results between 10,000 ng/ ml to a high of 82,000 ng/ml and they are all over the map in between. The 82k seems very high to me. Does anyone know how to determine if she is abusing? These tests are usually done on Monday and Thursday around noon.I do not object to paying for a forensic toxicologist if he/she has such expertise.
If the blood levels oscillate that much it's probably abuse but let's calculate it:

82,000ng/mL x 4500mL / 10^6 = 369mg

Are you sure about the 82k number? She had to take 500mg that day to score that high. Even if she's tiny, with 3L of blood, you replace the 4.5 in the above formula it won't change much haha. When I go from 15mg to 30mg I consider myself high...to go more then 10x that amount you need to be a crack head.

If she followed her prescribed dose she should be between 10k and 20k at all times. 80k is new to me, make sure you show this to someone. She probably skips the dose for 4 days to get high the 5th day or has other supply.
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Old 03-09-11, 10:33 AM
PedroDaGr8 PedroDaGr8 is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

I came to roughly the same number last night, though slightly lower because I used a blood volume of 5.6L. Either way that number seems crazy high. Honestly though this is definitely something that should be discussed with a forensic toxicologist or abuse specialist who would know more about this. Otherwise we are just talking out our asses. There may be legitimate reasons the amount gets that high and things we haven't thought of.
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Old 03-09-11, 03:20 PM
msl2grade msl2grade is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

Special thanks to both posters for the very helpful info. I have just sent all the test results to a toxicologist who has expertise in this area. Thanks again for your contributions to my dilemma.
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Old 03-09-11, 07:03 PM
PedroDaGr8 PedroDaGr8 is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

Glad that you found someone with expertise in that area. Good luck with it and I hope that your dilemma works itself out well.
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Old 03-09-11, 10:58 PM
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

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Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8 View Post
I came to roughly the same number last night, though slightly lower because I used a blood volume of 5.6L. Either way that number seems crazy high. Honestly though this is definitely something that should be discussed with a forensic toxicologist or abuse specialist who would know more about this. Otherwise we are just talking out our asses. There may be legitimate reasons the amount gets that high and things we haven't thought of.
there's no way someone can hit 80,000 lol. Most drug abusers I met are wise dudes, they would never let something like this happen. You really have to be an idiot and snort 500mg right before the test to score 80k...I can't understand how she scored that high, it's beyond comprehension. I would never let that thing near a child lol.
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Old 03-10-11, 12:15 AM
PedroDaGr8 PedroDaGr8 is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

Unless it was test operator error you are 100% correct. How dumb do you have to be.
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Old 03-10-11, 01:46 AM
msl2grade msl2grade is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

I have test results that go back to April of last year.Before that she was clean for amphetamines ( Adderall) but had an alcohol problem which was the reason for the tests in the first place.The LA testing facility is well know as is the large and reputable lab in Redwood City Ca. They just haven't been able to quantify the test results.Two weeks ago she tested 71,000+ ng/ml one day and three days later she had 72k. A few days later it was back down to 16 or 17k.

If she is taking 60mg a day (3x20xr) and tests 15 to 20k wouldn't she have to take around 210+\- to get in the 70k range?

Do either of you know of any research documentation that has addressed this issue.

My testing lab believes the numbers are high,as do I, we just have no
expertise that would be recognized in the court case. The lab owner told me one serious abuser had a reading of 197k.He also told me the government cut off reading is only 300ng.They make exceptions of course but if the gov thinks
300 ng is noteworthy what would the say about 70 or 80,000ng/ml?.

As I noted before I have sent the documentation on the urine tests to an expert forensic toxicologist in Omaha,so we will see. If you two have any other thoughts you know I would greatly appreciate hearing from you.

In the meantime my thanks again for your concern and thoughts.
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Old 03-10-11, 10:40 AM
PedroDaGr8 PedroDaGr8 is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

I have seen some but the concentrations are in ug/g not ng/ml. I am unsure how to convert the units, I mean I know the math but am unsure of the conversion factor for blood.

Also, is the test capable of determining different types of amphetamines such as meth versus amphetamine versus MDMA etc.
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Old 03-10-11, 02:19 PM
msl2grade msl2grade is offline
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Re: Adderall & Drug Test Levels

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Originally Posted by PedroDaGr8 View Post
I have seen some but the concentrations are in ug/g not ng/ml. I am unsure how to convert the units, I mean I know the math but am unsure of the conversion factor for blood.

Also, is the test capable of determining different types of amphetamines such as meth versus amphetamine versus MDMA etc.
Good point, I plan to check again with the lab but I believe they can distinguish Adderall ( once they know it's being used ) from Meth and others.When she first tried Phentermine(?) it showed up as Meth on the report. After a retest they agreed it was Phenermine.She claimed she had an RX from a doctor for weight issues.
Thanks again for your help.
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