handwriting issues- is K too early for OT?

[Lv2sleep]

My 6 year old started K this year after a "year" of unsuccessful homeschooling (she was unmanagable last year in homeschool K, so I had her repeat K in public school). She is the oldest child in her class.

Academically, she is doing surprisingly well. She has had some behavior problems, but considering her adhd symptoms and immaturity, I am pleased with her progress. Her teacher has told me she is at the top of class and scored high on standardized tests.

Her handwriting is terrible. Illegible. Her artwork is sloppy and she complains whenever she has to color or cut. She has refused to do any homework if it requires her to color or cut or paste. When we went to her school for a conference, her artwork on display looked completely different from her classmates. It looked like a toddler's artwork.

Her teacher told us that based on her age, our daughter does have "borderline" fine motor problems. The teacher mentioned that an OT evaluation was out of the question due to her grade. She said the therapists won't even consider looking at our daughter since she is in K.

So, my question is... Do I pursue an outside OT evaluation or take a "wait and see" approach in public school? Am I making too much out of handwriting issues? If I do have an OT eval done and there is a problem that needs therapy, would the school system have to automatically provide service or would they want to do their own evaluation? Does her adhd diagnosis make her more likely to receive an OT evaluation or therapy if needed?

Also, (this is a related question) if you have a child with adhd, should the child automatically have a 504 plan, even if there are no academic issues yet? Do parents just wait until academic issues present themselves? She is fine right now, but I know that most adhd kids will eventually have some type of learning disablity.

Thanks so much to everyone who takes the time to respond!

[Lv2sleep]

I don't know if this is important, but she is also left handed.

[small]

Well I can't answer all of your questions but I'll give you the info that I have experience with...

DS is just like your dd...hates to color, cut, paste...his artwork is awful compared to his classmates...I feel bad when I see it but he doesn't notice at all

DS changed preschools two summers ago (age 3.5) when I got his progress report and realized my smart, loveable boy was manipulating the teachers. He didn't get a thing out of his first year of preschool and the teachers were doing all of the work for him (said he couldn't cut, write, paste, etc when at home he was doing it all on his own!). His writing at that point was something I was SUPER concerned with so I found a new preschool that had a summer program to supplement their school year.

Immediately I told the teachers that writing/fine motor was my main concern. they worked on it (summer and entire school year) and it got better but entering K this year he was definitely behind.

It wasn't until we got to the private school that he was evaluated by his teacher and she told me she thought he had fine motor delays and OT would help him. Lucky for us they have an OT on staff at the school that helps all children that need it in all subjects or motor skills, speach therapy, etc.

Sooooo DS goes once per week for 20 minutes to OT for fine motor. His writing has improved TREMENDOUSLY!!! He's not by any means the writer my NT daughter is but his letters, numbers, coloring, and cutting have all improved dramatically.

As you know, motor delays are common with adhd. I think the earlier you can start working on this the better. I do also work with him alot at home with writing and coloring...I can't give you advice as to whether you should get outside OT but I can tell you how much it has helped DS this year...he's come so far from where he was...I'm truly greatful he has this service available to him!

I'm actually having a really hard time leaving this school. I really, really love the attention he gets. Its been really good for him. The entire staff addresses his needs, shows patience, and really wants him to succeed.

As far as a 504...I'm not sure what I'll be doing next year. I'm not even sure what grade I'm putting him in...getting the medication figured out is all I can focus on at this point. I know people that have no accomodations because their children with meds don't need anything done, I know people with 504s because their child didn't qualify for IEP, and I know people that have IEPs in place.

My plan is to go in and meet with the principal and social worker once we decide on what grade and what teacher my next goal will be to meet with her. I'll probably do a 504 just to protect him but I won't know much until after my intial meeting. I'm very, very nervous to send him back to the public school I've even considered homeschooling him because of how much anxiety I have about it. I just want him to be treated fairly and given a chance to succeed...that's not always possible given the ups and downs of adhd. It just all depends on the teacher and how patient they are willing to be...that's why I lean on the side of a 504 for his benefit.

[Lv2sleep]

Thanks for the good input! I should have mentioned that I cannot get my daughter to work at home with us on homework, or extra writing practice. She is learning at school, but at home, if we can make it through dinner and bath/bedtime without serious behavioral issues, we are lucky. So, we have put any schoolwork on the back burner. She won't even color for fun.

You mentioned you might get a 504 for public school. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know your son will be eligible for that? Is it automatic for an adhd diagnosis, or is it because he currently receives OT? Just wondering...

[MuscleMama]

My younger son started receiving PT at age 4 thru the town on a 504 plan. The developmental clinic at the hospital suggested we request the town evaluate him and he qualified. He was in a private preschool and I drove him to the public preschool location (inside the high school) for therapy twice a week.

After a few months the PT suggested we evaluate him for OT and he qualified. Going into K he had a 504 plan for OT & PT. By the end of K he was further evaluated for learning problems and transitioned to an IEP (still gets the OT & PT)

Classroom performance has nothing to do with needing OT. Formally request the school do testing for fine motor skills. If you don't agree with the testing results, you can consider getting an outside eval. Might as well have the school do it for free first, though.

If she starts receiving the OT they will have to put her on a 504 plan. You can discuss her ADHD and include any classroom accommodations she needs (if any) on the plan. If her ADHD isn't affecting her classroom performance/experience you don't have to discuss it with the school at all. I've heard that some school systems automatically create an IEP for kids diagnosed with ADHD, but not in my town.

[Codykins]

Our son received an evaluation from school directed from the neurodevelopmental doctor. He scored high and was deemed ineligible based on academics but was classified for "other health reasons"! Your child does not have to be academically inept or have a learning disability to receive an evaluation and services. Press the school district!

My son too has horrible handwriting and sloppy art. He fights me on homework that requires to much writing, it takes him to long. His writing is sloppy but mainly he jumbles all words together with no spaces.

With his IEP he has an in class aid who sits with him, all under "OHR". Some of the things we do with the handwriting issue is allow him to dictate his essay answers on tests (he,s in fourth grade). Penmanship is not graded and taken into consideration when grading all tests and class work.

Cody still prints and is allowed to when his other classmates aren't. Because his script is horrible! We don't (school and home) put much pressure on handwriting unless it's really sloppy he will be made to re-do but no extra help, if he takes his time he is pretty neat. What we don't want is for his handwriting to hold him back from learning the materials/subjects at hand. Or do we want correct answers marked wrong because his m's look like n's, if you know what I mean.

[Lv2sleep]

MM: Thanks! Just to clarify, if I formally request the school to eval for OT, must they comply? Or, could they decide they won't do it?

I was under the impression that children who receive OT must have an academic issue, not just fine motor problems. Could it vary from state to state?

Codykins: Thanks as well! Does your son receive OT? I couldn't make that out from your post. You mentioned that he has an IEP. Is it for his adhd issues, or OT? If he doesn't receive OT, it seems like his IEP addresses handwriting issues.

[StoicNate]

Practicing fine motor skills is important to increase them.

Buy some play dough and a stress ball to strengthen hand/arm muscles needed for fine motor skills.
Get her some art supplies to make art, let her cut pieces of paper and paste things, etc.

Make it fun and she'll do well.

[MuscleMama]

Originally Posted by Lv2sleep

MM: Thanks! Just to clarify, if I formally request the school to eval for OT, must they comply? Or, could they decide they won't do it?

I was under the impression that children who receive OT must have an academic issue, not just fine motor problems. Could it vary from state to state?

I'm pretty sure they must evaluate if you request it in writing, but you can check the wrights law website to be sure. That should not vary by location.

My older son (4th grade) also receives OT for handwriting on a 504 plan and is doing well academically.

There should be some sort of 504 coordinator and/or IEP liason you can get in touch with. Go to the principal if you have any problems.

[small]

Originally Posted by Lv2sleep

Thanks for the good input! I should have mentioned that I cannot get my daughter to work at home with us on homework, or extra writing practice. She is learning at school, but at home, if we can make it through dinner and bath/bedtime without serious behavioral issues, we are lucky. So, we have put any schoolwork on the back burner. She won't even color for fun.

You mentioned you might get a 504 for public school. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know your son will be eligible for that? Is it automatic for an adhd diagnosis, or is it because he currently receives OT? Just wondering...

I found this on greatschools.net and it explains alot of the process for how you qualify for a 504:

http://www.greatschools.org/special-...gs?content=868

I talked with a counselor in a neighboring district and she told me if it was her child she would pursue a 504 vs an IEP unless his condition was severe enough to warrant special education services. At this point, I doubt ds would qualify for an IEP. The only services he needs that I can see currently would be OT for fine motor but I can also work on things like that at home...he actually learns really, really well for me here at home because its one on one interaction and I can keep him on task.

My really good friend's sister also works for the special services dept that is in our school district. If I have any questions I know I can easily get my answers from her. Hope the article helps...

[Ms. Mango]

Originally Posted by Lv2sleep

Her teacher told us that based on her age, our daughter does have "borderline" fine motor problems. The teacher mentioned that an OT evaluation was out of the question due to her grade. She said the therapists won't even consider looking at our daughter since she is in K.

This doesn't make sense to me. School districts where teachers give kindergarteners homework and then refuse to help those kids struggling to complete the work (whether due to academic or other deficiencies) just blow my mind.

Like MM's son, my son received OT in preschool and K. There is no reason to withhold services from a child once a teacher identifies that he is having problems of any kind in the classroom.

It's already mid-March so this is what I'd do--request that the school evaluate your daughter and start looking for an OT on your own. Even if the school agrees, assuming your DD qualifies, she will not be getting much (if anything) in the way of services until next fall. By doing OT privately you can get her started over the summer in advance of 1st grade.

[Luvmybully]

I do not understand the reasoning behind K is too young for an OT eval?

And I also do not understand why getting ot services would be only for kids with academic issues. That REALLY does not make sense to me. OT is not an academic problem, it is a fine motor problem.

My son with cerebral palsey NEVER had a single academic issue his entire life, but he certainly NEEDED OT and PT. Had nothing to do with academics at all.

[Lv2sleep]

Thanks for all of your replies. You all inspired me to call her teacher and address the fine motor/handwriting concerns. The teacher was very understanding and she suggested a child study meeting with the OT present. Her teacher did agree that my daughter isn't showing much improvement in writing and would probably have academic difficulty in 1st grade due to the increased writing requirments.

I will let you all know the results of the meeting. Thanks again for your support!

[Arei]

Originally Posted by Lv2sleep

I don't know if this is important, but she is also left handed.

This is mega important

This might make you feel better concerning your daughters "apparent" lack of motor skills.

I am a 20 year old maybeADDer not sure (I fit the bill, but was told I dont have ADD. I was told I have ADHD, but I definitely do not have ADHD, so I have no idea XD Before I went to K, I was diagnosed NOT having ADD or ADHD), left handed, and most kindergarteners have better handwriting then /I/ do. (My cousin is in 1st grade, and its a lot better then mine XD). While I was in school, I noticed most left handed kids' handwriting were as bad or worse then mine. My aunt is the only left handed person I know who was able to easily improve her handwriting. My hand will cramp and literally die when I force it to write perfectly (my AP exams, ughhhhhh). Though of course, I've improved over the years and while its legible, my handwriting is very uneven, and sloppy next to most. ((Also I was top of my class in kindergarten, and I knew how to read and write (best I could XD I knew what I was was writing even if it looked like nonsense) when I entered kindergarten. I was top of my class all through elementary school, even if I had the worst handwriting :P))

Here, I wrote some nonsense:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...andwiritng.jpg
Though, I cannot write hand-crushingly perfect right now as I'm way too tired but, I tried XD But look at that, its abismal. It DOES look like kindergarten handwriting and my handwriting used to be SO MUCH WORSE.

((though I found a journal i wrote in in 6th grade, and I actually had better handwriting when I was doing a lot of fun story writing in journals... huh.. maybe I should write for fun more again XD))

My handwriting in kindergarten looked more like some archaic symbols then english letters. I dunno how people were able to read it. I had it pointed out to me through school and my grandma always griped about it but, no one made a HUGE deal out of it.

Also, are they using safety sisscors in her class? I could never cut with those scissors, and a lot of normal kid scissors are not designed to be used left handed. My grandma got me these to use because my dismal cutting and pasting abilities were apparently embarrassing enough:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CGMQ8gIwBg#

I used these all through elementary school (and after elementary, you dont use scissors that much really) and though now I can use most regular large scissors, this type (as well as the really huge ones they make, I use that not just for my sewing but regular cutting as well), I still prefer these for small items that require precision.

Scissors are a major enemy to the left handed person. I was so angry at my job at Bath & Body Works this last christmas because they kept putting me in charge of cutting shrink-wrapped candles and I was unable to use the scissors. They just wouldn't cut for me. I had to saw the shrink-wrap and they'd just complain because they were able to cut the shrink-wrap off no problem and the b**** manager said I just didn't want to do it! I had to force people to watch me not be able to do it :/ I also sew, and sometimes I've had to use crappy scissors that ended up messing up the fabric when I used them, but glided perfectly when a right handed person used the same pair.

I know those fiskar scissors look like a deadly weapon, but they're absolutely the best. I also had the toddler looking cut-outs unless I was able to use these scissors.


Going back to the writing a sec, I think there may be an issue concerning HOW we are taught to write. Writing is meant to be fluid, as the arm glides from the left to right with ease. When you are left handed, you are PUSHING your hand along, and you're essentially writing backwards (That is why some left handed kids will curl their entire wrist around when they right because it mimics writing from the right hand. That is very bad for the wrist though). When I move my right hand writing (which is not good at all because i have no coordination in that hand XD) it feels a lot more comfortable. We're taught to write letters from a right handed perspective, if you think about it really hard, it's kind of awkward doing it left handed. That is probably why it really hurts my hand to strain and take it slow when I want to make my writing as perfectly as possible.

I will have to look it up again but there are special left handed pencils and pens sold in the UK that I have been meaning to try. They are designed especially for being held in the left hand and the video claimed it improves handwriting and alleviates discomfort.

Oh here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i4CRw3DG-s

I beleive at the end of the video it shares the website with where to get the pens. I do beleive there are US retailers of it too.

This video will probably answer more questions then my babble XD

If you're right handed, its very easy not to think about the difficulties but seriously, writing left handed is a pain in the a**. I REALLY hate that places require you to write in print (in high school, they requested us NOT to write in cursive, though it also began in middle school too, they didn't force everyone to stop). I LOVE writing in cursive. Beleive it or not, the fluidity is much easier. I'm not sure if this is also because I am an artist (I can draw but not write, go figure) but my cursive is alot more neater and legible than my print. And in high school when many important essays are required to be written in pen, ugh. Smudge city.

Also, not sure if she also has this problem, but I had trouble with tying my shoes until sometime in 1st grade (maybe 2nd, I was 7 I think). I've always been a little "slow" when it came to doing things with my hands. This seems to be a common trait among left-handers. I can draw but sometimes I have difficulty with other things. Like doing my hair, my hands aren't just coordinated enough to curl it with a curling iron all over and I hate that XP


In short, left handed people have trouble with writing and using scissors. It's not disability, how we are taught to write and how many scissors are designed are for use by right handed people. It doesn't work well when it's done "backwards".

I also had issues with coloring in the lines but this improved over time. Everything improved over time, I think its more of an art then a science. And the older I got, the more I realized I liked drawing and appreciated artistic style and made a concious effort to improve the quality of my drawing, handwriting, and coloring. I think I was fine with coloring by 1st-2nd grade, but I made a real improvement in drawing style starting in 4th grade. In fact, I think I was coloring and a girl pointed out to me "You need to stop coloring like that and color in the lines", and I made an effort to do so. I think we start out with a lot of bad habits we don't correct until it's pointed out to us (like I used to grip my utensils like a handle until my step mom told me not to, and then I held them properly).

Most likely your daughter is fine, she will just have the normal hang-ups a left handed person in a right handed world is going to have, which will be butchering everything one touches with improper scissors and the constant struggle with chicken scratch handwriting and improving it. I dunno how my aunt did it (she improved her handwriting on her own too), but I cannot write super perfect without major handcramps of death. And secretly it may give her cramps too and she just doesn't tell anyone XD As far as the coloring, it might take a negative comment from a peer to make her more concious. ALOT of bad habits I did not realize I had until someone (not family) pointed them out to me in elementary school.

I never knew they did OT for hand writing. They only did OT for kids with speech impediments or dyslexia in my school. Like I mentioned before, my handwriting was rarely pointed out. I wonder if it really works for handwriting. I really think for left handed people its not a motor-skill problem, it's figuring out how to make writing backwards work for you. I have not had major success, but I could write and write and write all day (and did all through school), and my handwriting DID improve tremendously, but it is still far from perfect. And my hand will ache when I keep my writing as straight as possible.

Edit: Also, she may not want to color or cut because she realizes she does a poor job at it. I think someone mentioned giving her fun art activities to do, no pressure, and I agree that's probably a good idea. I enjoyed doing things with my hands, like bead buddies (not sure you can really find these easy in stores now though :/). I always liked drawing, but I wasn't a big coloring fan either. I just scribbled in the coloring book and was done with it (again til it was pointed out to me that that was "bad" XD). I only bothered to color properly for school assignments, I didn't like doing it for fun either, just drawing was enough.

Maybe get one of those "make a cup" or mug kits where you draw on the included paper your own design and then place it in the mug. My grandma bought a lot of craft items like that for me when I was small. (and for awhile, my mom would get me window catchers to paint every so often). Fun crafts may make her enjoy being creative (which left handed people are good at) and she may gain some confidence from producing many beautiful art pieces. And I'd really try the Fiskar scissors. Once she realizes she can control them alot better, her confidence will shoot up. I actually remember how proud I felt being able to not cut off the black line (though even now, sometimes I slip and still do XD) because I could actually use the scissors. Play-dough is always fun too. In elementary school we'd have clay days in art class, and we had the most fun on those days building the most craziest things we could think of.

[m1trLG2]

I think you can look into an independent OT but they may not offer them through the school at that point. As for handwriting alone, I could show you some of my fifth grader's homework and I bet her writing is probably better. The fact that she is resistant to activities that involve fine motor skills is more interesting to me. I am curious as to whether she has been criticized for her coloring, gluing, and cutting skills or if she just really doesn't like them. If it's criticism then it's less of a clue than if she just really doesn't like doing anything that has to do with fine motor. The latter would suggest to me more of a problem, like it's very hard or uncomfortable for her to do this stuff.

Whether or not they will help you with OT there are things that you can do to help if you want. I know they make scissors to help with this. You could get some either by searching online or going to a specialty store. They also have pencil grips that can help kids hold writing utensils more efficiently. I would also encourage her to do free drawing or arts and crafts where there is no judgement. Say something like, "I would love if you would make a birthday card for grandma! She loves your art!" See how that goes over. Does she play any video games or use a computer? If so, does she struggle with that? How about tying shoes? Look for other fine motor areas that use similar muscles.

There are a lot of physical therapy activities you can do too. You can google those. They are things like picking up pieces of paper or pebbles and putting them in cups etc. This can help her as well. If you find it to be an unbearable struggle though I would see if you could find an OT that will work with your daughter outside of school.

Good luck!